Episode 18: Consultant Maven Matthew McDermott

Heather: Hello everyone we're here with another episode of Mavens Do It Better and I'm so excited to have a wonderful friend and colleague on today, Matthew McDermott, who I'll, I'll give a little bit of a bio on him because he's so amazing. And He, uh, first of all, you're a 13-time Microsoft Office Apps and Services MVP, so 13 y'all. That's a huge number.

Matthew:  It is kind of a weird number because they did a little hiccup in the middle so some of us got kind of a cycled the second time, but um, but yeah, that's pretty crazy.

Heather:  That's right. Sometimes the second cycle is what you need, you know, for sure. So anyway, I just adore him and we got to catch up together in Copenhagen at the European SharePoint conference and we got to talking and he to me is a maven of many things, but definitely, you know, the consulting world and being an MVP and working with clients and customers and so wanted to have him on to talk a little bit about that and what sparks him and you know, the typical stuff we talk about on our podcast. But I thought it would be a fun conversation to have with you to talk about all that sort of thing and. Oh yes. Oh No, I was getting there. Don't worry. We both have a love of the furry creatures of the dogs sort. And I love watching your wonderful world on social media with your dog and it's so wonderful. So anyway, say hi to everybody will ya? Yeah

Matthew:  Hi everybody! heather, thank you so much for having me on. It was awesome catching up with you in Copenhagen and, and I've been a huge fan of your podcast for a while, so I'm glad you. I'm glad you agreed to have me on.

Heather:  Absolutely. And uh, you have such a much fancier setup than I do. You look wicked professional over there.

Matthew:  That's my, that's my, my big podcasting microphone that I use for doing my desktop recordings and stuff like that. But yeah, it makes me look like a sportscaster, a sports announcer.

Heather:  I know, I'm like, I'm about ready to hear "And he's going off!". Absolutely. So, so I guess you've been a consultant for a long time and worked with tons of clients and stuff and will you talk about some best practices and things that you've learned along the way? Um, in doing so because I, I know you've got such a great rich career around that

Matthew:  I'd love to. I'd love to. I, um, so I moved to Austin 20 years ago and prior to that I had worked as an independent consultant. Um, I was writing code and helping customers with database issues and stuff like that. And this was back, the Internet was new, people figuring out how to use the web was new and so there was a lot of different things that, that um, consultants could get into. And, and I was hired by a consulting company here in Austin and I ended up working there for 12 years. Was a fantastic experience for me. And one of the things that I really enjoyed about it is the CEO at the time, he would do this, this formal boot camp and it was a full day indoctrination into the culture of the company. And it, it, it really wasn't technical. It was really about, yeah, there was the usual, how do you fill out your time sheet, how do you do this, how do you do that? But easily the first four hours of the class or of the boot camp was about the culture of the company and making sure that people could fit into that culture. Um, the thing I was proud of is that, um, after I got into search and rescue with my dog, we would come to boot camp, my dog and I, and, and, and be part of it. And so we would get to train all of the new, we would get to talk to all of the new recruits as they come in. And so as the company grew, we were in multiple cities and this whole notion of how important company culture is, was really ingrained into people. And what I would talk about is what's the special thing that you bring? What is your, you know, if you're the best cookie baker than bring cookies. If in my case, I was a dog trainer and in my spare time, I train, raised and trained search and rescue dogs and she and I would go work. We worked after Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Rita, Hurricane Ike, we worked for the FBI. We did a, um, a, a, a super-secret thing down on the border to try to help out with some drug cartel stuff that was unrelated to the drugs, but it was related to helping to find people and it was fascinating work. Had absolutely nothing to do with being a consultant, but the company embraced that. And that's really why we came and talked during boot camp is because I would come in and say you guys got hired to be accountants and consultants and programmers and developers but that's not really why you're here. Why you're here is what lights your fire, why you're here is that special thing that makes you, you. For me, it's search dogs. So the company embraces that. So don't be shy. Tell people what the thing is, that's special to you and embrace it. Enjoy it. And so being a consultant for me was something I was very passionate about. I love being a consultant. Now I'm out of the consulting world and I'm ecstatic about being out of the consulting world because I'm enjoying a new challenge, you know? And it's been, it's been crazy because I'm working in, duh-duh-duh marketing.

New Speaker:   Hey, how you doing?

Matthew:  So, it's too bad we don't have any synergy anymore because I'm in marketing now.

Heather:  Oh, come on. What a cool thing though because I think it's something that is so, it's not, I don't even want to call it basic but in a way it's, you know, sometimes you work with people for 20 years or 10 or whatever and you have no idea who they are or what, what drives them, what their why is, you know, why they get up out of bed every morning, every morning. And that it's, it's a cool thing that you got exposed to early on in your career.

Matthew:  It is, it is. It's really something that has at the time, it definitely changed me. It's something that I, you know, a lot of people would say, oh the boot camp how about that. And I was like, you know, that was really important to me because it's, I, the reason I travel, it's not to go see a city, it's to meet people. I would be much happier in a, in a wild rainstorm, sitting in a pub in Haarlem talking with the people there than a beautiful, clear pristine day in walking around the churches. It's that human connection constantly that, that drives me. And that's my why, right? That's why I travel. Sure. I go to conferences and I speak and do all that stuff. But the thing that I love to do is I love to connect with people.

Heather:  We share a why.

Matthew:  Two whys. Now we have dogs and people.

Heather:  Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm all about spreading the joy like peanut butter on a really good piece of bread too.

Matthew:  Yeah. I always felt, I've always felt that I'm the ambassador is that, you know, when I hear people say, you know, you're, you're that American guy that was here last year. You know, like when we, we, there's this, there's a bar that we love to go to in, in Haarlem. And the first time I met the guys that run the place absolutely fell in love with them and they keep. It's really fascinating. They have a book, so when you come in and you place your order, they don't ring you up, they have a book and so they write something in the book and they keep track. And the second time I was there I said, can I see the book because I've noticed that you guys look through the book and then you ring out one number on the cash register when you're done. And he kind of looked at me, kind of sheepishly like, why do you want to look in the book? And I said, I want to know what you call me. And he goes, oh, that's easy. And he turns it around and I took a picture of it and posted it. It says the American. Okay. That works

Heather:  To be clear. You're talking about Haarlem in the Netherlands? Not Harlem, New York City.

Matthew:  In the Netherlands. Yes. The original. The original Haarlem. That's right. The original Haarlem outside the original Amsterdam. Because New York was New Amsterdam and Harlem is Harlem. And so I was The American in the bar. And it was hilarious that, that they kept track that way. And so I said, next time I come in, I want you to write my name. And so, and I didn't say it in a bad way, I just said it, that I want you to get to know me so that when I come walking in, so now year after year we go in and um, and the guys in the bar will see me, they get ecstatic that we're back, that my wife and I are back and they greet us like we're friends. In fact, a year ago when we were there, we came in, got greeted just like, we were long lost brothers, came in, got hugs from all the bartenders. They knew what, they just brought us our drinks because they knew what we drink. And we sat down and this couple came over and said, well, so do you live here? Very American accent. And I said, no. I said, no, we just come to visit and we love these guys. So, um, this is like at that point, this is like our fourth visit. And I said, we just made friends and we catch up once a year and it's fun and, and the wife says, well, because we've lived here for a year and they don't greet us like that. So she and her husband had moved there to work for one of the big companies and um, and they ride their bikes, their kids go to school there, you know, and, and so riding your bike in, in Harlem and all around Amsterdam is the thing to do, like 25 percent of the vehicles on the road are bicycles. And um, and so it was just really funny that, that they had noticed that they, the way that we had gotten greeted and it was really fun.

Heather:  Yeah. No, that's awesome. Yeah, there is something to going back to places, and I do the same thing. I, I am lucky enough to travel a lot for work and speaking and all of that. And I love going back and visiting places and friends and staying with friends. I'm lucky that I get to stay with people a lot instead of, I try to opt for that instead of hotel rooms. I would rather be really good guest and do dishes and cook and give a nice gifts and, and stay with people and get to know the, you know, get to know their worlds, you know, for sure. So.

Matthew:  Well it's, it's such a, it's, it's the way you learn the culture. You don't learn the culture going to the American restaurant and going to the top rated restaurant on yelp. You learn it by going down the back alleys and finding those niches. And then by going back, there are a lot of countries and places I've been that I have not returned to but I would like to. But I part of the vacation for me is resting my mind on not having to learn a new place, but getting to go deeper into places and then going back in different seasons is huge. Haarlem in June is very different than Harlem in November. Um, you know, the market is out and, and all the fresh food is out during and all the fresh flowers in the spring and summertime is amazing and you just don't see that side of it in the wintertime. So that's another fun way to go back to places.

Heather:  Yeah, absolutely. I've been to Amsterdam many times now and different seasons, same thing with Copenhagen, you know, like Christmas markets versus the springtime and all of that and I think that's something that, you know, getting to work in technology or in any industry, but especially in technology. Then also becoming an MVP and having the opportunity to be asked to come and do things. You know, I think that's a big honor and also a real, I guess it's a lovely perk I guess of that too, you know, that you do get to go experience and bring different elements of technology to different people in the world and learn about, you know, when I'm doing the diversity work that I do in conjunction with technology, you know, it's a different conversation in different places. It seems same as far as like everybody being equal and human and wonderful, but it's also, there's different nuances to it. We saw that in Puerto Rico and having that conversation and with Allister and Melissa and holding a panel there and having that be like, how do you shift the conversation to make it so that it's relevant to them and um, poignant and all of that that, that you're not laying down something on top of people that are like, Hey, Puerto Rico's wicked diverse. We're already, we come that way. You know what I mean? So I think, yeah, very lucky. And so, you've been an MVP for 13 years will you talk about that and maybe how that program's evolved and changed, and what that’s like?

Matthew:  the, the MVP program, probably the single most confusing thing to folks that don't know the program is that it's not a certification. There's a lot of people that'll say, well, this person is a certified MVP. And it's like, well, it's not, it's, it's an award. It's an annual award that Microsoft, um, bestows upon individuals who, work in the community. Now it's tied to a technology as you know. And so originally my original MVP was I was a SharePoint MVP, so that was a server product at the time, it wasn't in the cloud, there really was no cloud. but it was a, it was along those lines. So back, back then, there are, there are still, but there were PowerPoint MVPs that were Xbox MVPs, there were, um, I don't think there were any notepad MVPs, but we do make fun of some of the older people in our group that are were the MVP of Fire and uh, um, MVP of fire and MVP of notepad, things like that. So it's evolved into fewer categories across, broader, across a broader swath of technology. And usually it's aligned with the technology. So, in my case, since I talk a lot about SharePoint and Office 365, um, I am according to Microsoft an Office Apps and Services MVP. And um, and now what I'm doing, I'm working as a, I'm the principal technical marketing engineer for Spanning Cloud apps and we build a cloud to cloud backup solution for Office 365. We have two other products. We have one for one for Salesforce and one for G-Suite, but I focus on the Office 365 side of things.

Heather:  Okay, that's cool. So with, so you, you work, so enterprise, small, medium business, do you run the gamut? For the most part?

Matthew:  I do, I, I, I'm proud of saying that I don't turn away, I don't like to turn away anybody. So I've worked for, I've worked for sole proprietors that are trying to get their, um, their businesses into the cloud. They're trying to really, what they're trying to do is they're trying to sleep better at night and trying to figure out how the cloud can help them do that. So I'm actually launching a new, um, a new session this year. I think I'll be doing it. I'm almost positive I'll be doing it in Austin SPTechCon for the first time in February. And um, it's, it's called "Your Business Isn't Too Small for the Cloud" and it touches on what small businesses can use the cloud for. how it can save them money, even though it does cost money, it can still save you a lot of time, a lot of hassle and help you sleep better at night, you know, because you're, you're protected. The customer that I'm thinking of, we went from all of his stuff in boxes and file cabinets, to stored on his laptop. And if he ever lost his laptop he would die. To a point now where he doesn't have any paper files and everything's in an Office 365 or some other app or some other cloud app. And if he loses a laptop, it doesn't matter. He goes back to Best Buy, buys another version of that laptop, logs in, gets into Office 365 and he's up and running in an hour. And that's crazy considering where he came from. So. So those are the kinds of things that I like to do. And then we'd take that all the way up to the enterprise. Right? Is it 200,000 employees and you're trying to, you're trying to find something. Search is another passion of mine. a friend of mine asked me the other day, is there any coincidence that you're a search dog handler and you like to do search? So with my, with my cohort, my, uh, my partner in crime, Agnes Molnar and I, we've been running search workshops. Just finished one up in, uh, in Orlando and we'll be doing our next one in Branson, Missouri at the North American Collaboration Summit if you're, if you go to the North American Collaboration Summit site, they just launched our, it's a silly little promo video, but it's, I think it's hilarious because we were sitting outside in Orlando freezing, absolutely freezing, trying to do this video and we're very under caffeinated and um, and we just decided to sit down on the curb and knock it out and uh, and it came off kind of silly, but it's fun.

Heather:  That's awesome. Yeah, she was my second podcast that I did.

Matthew:  I know, I know. Search maven.

Heather:  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was, you know, it was nice to um, you know, uh, learn, uh, uh, on a couple of friends where I was like, I'm figuring out equipment and doing all that kind of stuff. And so yeah. And Tracy from a ESPC and Agnes were my first victims if you will. Ha, ha ha,

Matthew:  those were good, I liked those. Those were good podcast. They came out really well.

New Speaker:   Thank you. Yeah, no, absolutely. So you know, you, I know that, you know, you have the search and rescue that you do and I know that you're a cook and a bartender and all of those things. I see the pictures and all of that. Um, I don't know where, where do you go and get away for inspiration or what things do you like to kind of, find that work life balance? I think we don't talk about mental health and burnout enough and we work in such fast paced environments with a lot of pressure. And how do you, how do you unplug? You know?

Matthew:  Well actually for me it's really easy. I live in Austin, Texas and the subdivision that I live in is adjacent to the Barton Creek Greenbelt and so, so I can have Ruby off leash in about five minutes and we can go for seven to 10 miles in one direction without running into, without running into any, we'll run into people because it's a beautiful place. Even on a weekday there'll be folks out there mountain biking and stuff like that. But um, right now the creek is full and so Ruby gets to swim and she loves to jump in. So she'll do these epic huge dog jumps and chase sticks and just, she, she has a great time and I cannot, I can't be thinking about stress while I'm watching this dog just absolutely revel in nature. So that's how I unplug a lot of times. It's also behind my camera. that's kind of my creative outlet is I love to take photos and uh, and maybe in the show notes we'll throw in my Instagram account and I'll, uh, I'll show that. But um, yeah, so those are kinda the two things that I like to do the most. I love to cook, I love to eat, I love to mix craft cocktails. A friend of mine does out, does a podcast called the Bar Reviver and that kinda got me re-inspired to learn how to do some of these classic craft cocktails. And that's a, that's a real fun one too.

Heather:  That's awesome. So maybe another technology question. I think, you know, we've, we're, as you were talking about the person that you got, you know, from having things on their desk and you know, in files and then finally into their laptop and then into the cloud. We've seen Teams explode onto the scene here. And how are you finding clients adopting Teams?

Matthew:  I think it's a mixed bag. It's kind of funny. The company I'm working at now, we are not an Office 365 shop. We're a Gmail, Slack and um, and assorted other cloud-based services that we use to manage all of our projects. And it's really fascinating to see how effective you can be as long as those technologies are ingrained in a little bit of awareness and um, and ingrained into appropriate communication channels. So, for instance, I've been working on some PowerShell and getting the PowerShell module together for my company, right? It's part of it's part of something our administrators can use to be able to manage their, their accounts a little bit better. And my first question was I'm getting ready to do the recording and I'm thinking what, what resolution should I use so I can just jump on Slack, I can see of the people I know can answer the question, which ones are online right away and I can just ping them and then I can know that that conversation is stored somewhere so I don't have to go plow through email and go find it. And it's the immediacy of that communication. Whereas yesterday in a meeting we were talking about what we're going to be doing for 2019 and that's not as, that's it's, that's more sticky. That takes a little longer to figure out so that, the result of that communication are coming to us in email. And so I think that as long with Teams and with Slack, with a lot of the new communication channels that are being thrown at us as long as companies are using them in a way that is appropriate for the type of communication that's occurring. Um, I can give you another example. The, uh, the video that Agnes and I did that started out as a request on a Facebook, Facebook messenger and then fast became, wait a second, can we move this to email because I'm not going to be on my phone trying to read 27 pages just because you're on a browser and you can paste in your huge message.

New Speaker:   You can always tell if somebody is on a browser with WhatsApp or whatever. And I type really fast anyway. But people are like, I cannot keep up with you because I'm on my phone and I'm like, okay, fair enough.

New Speaker:   And there's. But there's also the stickiness of it too. If you're going to send me four links to things that I want to be able to review later, having to remember where I saw those things. Email ends up becoming the,` sort of my permanent record of that. And even if I get somebody that says, Hey, can you do this? Yes, I can do that and I or we want to change the project`, this is another good one, we want to change the project and the subtle way, can you change it this way? Well, if that's an a Teams channel instead of being in an email so that I can make it an official record of the project that it's a change, then it becomes a bigger challenge. And so as long as folks understand how to switch context and understand where one thing goes versus the other. one of the things I love about both Teams and Slack is the integration with third party tools. So if somebody breaks the build, then then that Bot can push it into the Teams channel where everybody can see, oh my gosh, we've got a broken build, and then someone else can say, okay, that was on me, I broke it, I'll get on it. And so right away you have, again, it's the immediacy factor of knowing that, that the communication is taking place in the right place.

Heather:  Got It. Yeah. Are you a SXSWer, since you live in Austin?

Matthew:  so, I did the first three original SXSWs because the company I was working for at the time had a sister company that was a survey tool and as a result we were doing the marketing surveys for south by, so we got free tickets and that was great. That was great. So we saw some really amazing bands, but I'm not a crowd person so I don't, I don't do the big festivals. I like the small more intimate venues like Continental Club and a 1 to 1 Bar and stuff like that in Austin. Those are fun.

Heather:  I went to SXSW. I've been a few times, but I think my first one, it was in, I think it was 1990 it must have been or 93, something like that. Why? I can't even remember when it started. Is it? That's probably around the time that it got going.

Matthew:  Ninety-three I think it was. I think. I don't know exactly, but I think it was around back then. Yeah. They're coming up on a big anniversary and now it's two weekends. It used to just be a three day festival.

Heather:  Yeah. Well, and it's sort of a launch point for so many things now. It used to be just the music, you know? I mean, but yeah, I, I. There was a bar on sixth street.

Matthew:  Oh, and you know what I was thinking of ACL. You're talking about south by.

New Speaker:   Oh yeah, yeah.

New Speaker:   you're right. Yeah. I was talking about ACL festival south by obviously it's been around forever and you know, so, and it's much more. It's music, it's film, it's interactive, it's the, in fact I was, I was the Microsoft guy on a content management panel on the interactive side of things and that was hilarious. We had a lot of fun with that. We had a lot, because the guys that I met with, they were, you know, they were Open Source and Drupal and, and all these other CMSs that I'd never heard of. And so I was the Microsoft Guy, you know, it was hilarious. We had a really good time.

Heather:  I know is I think sort of back in. I mean, I've been in and around for about 18, 20 years and the Microsoft space too, and for, you know, different places in different settings, you become the Microsoft person, you know, because you're the one person in the room and so not only do you get the, the Microsoft Gal, but you also get, Hey, um, and they hand you something, you know, a device. You become the IT department for everybody in the room. Do you remember a bar called the Bates Motel on sixth street at all? It was, it was a divey, divey, divey place and um, it was one of those where it was like musicians and then people would walk in with their instruments and then sit down and be like, hey, we need a horn. You know, we need a sax and we need a whatever. But I remember it was that they played an endless loop of the movie Psycho. Know, on one of the televisions. Yeah, that place just stuck in my mind. I don't think it's there anymore, but I think that was just one of those 20 years ago, small divey bars in Austin. That was kind of awesome. So

Matthew:  there's, there's a number of bars that have been, that were here when I, when I moved here and have gone by the wayside that are part of, part of a, like a, um, so Antone's kind of came and went because of some issues that he had legally, but Antone's is back. And then um, one of my favorites was the Zona Rosa and as some of the best, absolutely most amazing music concerts, um, small venue, mid-sized venue. But I saw Richard Thompson was five feet away from him while he was playing Vincent Black Lightning. Kev-Mo, several times. Kev-Mo is just astounding. And some other artists like Robert Earl Keen who's a local, he's actually Bandera but Austin calls himself Austin because he was discovered on KUT. And stuff like that. So, and like Joe E Lee, ran into Joe E Lee, I was interviewing for a technical role and I was the interview-er. And so part of it is taking the, taking the candidate out to lunch and meeting them and I'm sitting there and Joe E Lee sits down at a table next to me and I was an absolute rabid fan of his music. And so finally I walked over and I said, this is going to sound really lame, but I absolutely love your music. And he goes, Nah, that's not lame at all man, that's really cool. That's really cool. Thank you. And I said, I (break in audio) sharks. And he's like, I totally remember that. That was down at Green Hall, man. He was nuts. Greenhall. We had to climb in and out of the bathroom window because there's no back door to that stage. It was awesome. It was so funny. Absolutely hilarious. But that was all that was Clay Pit over by UT. So yeah, I love this town because even though it's, it's very much grown up and it's real different than it was 20 years ago. It's still a really good place to be from. You know, it's, it's, everybody knows Austin and a sort of instant acceptance when people find out you're from Texas and then ultimately from Austin it's fun.

Heather:  Absolutely. That's super cool. Well, you know, do you have any. I don't know how you, you have, so like you have so many things, are so amazing and working with clients and stuff do you have any parting thoughts, I guess on people like just dealing with and working with folks, you know?

Matthew:  Man, so I, I guess I have kind of my big three when you're thinking about working with a consultant. One of the first things is don't ask me how much I cost because it's silly, right? So how expensive are you? Oh, wow, that's really expensive. Okay. Well it's the wrong conversation because you need to understand how I can help you and, and you have to be careful of those people who go, oh, I can do everything. So that's why I'm this expensive. I never said that because I know that I can't. That's why I worked with five of the guys that were really good at all the stuff that I sucked at. And, and they love doing that other stuff like business intelligence, not me, you know, I don't, I don't have a brain for that kind of thing. So I did a lot of work around search. I did a lot of work around architecting farms and stuff like that. And, and for someone to call up and say, Oh yeah, we had a consultant in here and he was terrible. So we're looking for another consultant. It says more about you that it was terrible then the consultant who left. Now there are really horrible consultants out there. I get it, but you're in a new relationship. You're on your first date and you're talking about how your last date was such a train wreck. It's not the information I want. Right? It immediately throws this whole relationship into doubt. And, uh, and I think the other thing, and this is, this is one of the tips that I give to young consultants that are thinking about getting into the business and that's, that change happens no matter what the project is, change is going to happen. People are going to swap in and out of a project and you have to be able to be resilient and get around that. But there's a ripple effect to change. And so when you're, when you're thinking about your project, no matter what the project is, don't think three years down the line because the software is going to change in that time. You've got to be thinking in smaller iterations and then plan for that change ripple effect. And so one of the things I always talk to my customers about is the cost of a change. It's really inexpensive before we paint your house to change the color of the paint. Oh, once I'm halfway through painting your house, it's going to be much more expensive. And, and understanding that, that as soon as you think there's a change, let me know, send up a flare. So that I know there's a possible change coming and we can evaluate it and go with it, but if I'm done painting your house and you're ready and I'm ready to take a check from you and you say it's the wrong color, then we have bigger issues. And so you know what, what Sam used to say was clients are never trained to be clients but you're trained to be a technologist so you've got to work with the customers and the customers have to learn to work with you. So I think the biggest tip I have, it comes back to why you and I are such good friends and that's communicate. Just be people, you know, I didn't come in here because I thought I could screw you over from a, from a consulting perspective. That's not why I started this project. But if you think that's the case then then we have bigger issues than just the technology. So, Communicate, communicate, communicate.

New Speaker:   I agree. And I think that that not only applies to a business proposition. But I think that's very astute from life. You know, something comes up, talk about it, right?

Matthew:  One of the things I tell people is that my father was a consultant, he was a business consultant for years and my mother's a marriage family, child counselor and I use her skills in my business more than I use his.

New Speaker:   Empathy is where it's at. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's a good place to close out our chit-chat. Oh, thank you so much for being on. It's just lovely to talk to you anyway and catch up with you again and thank you for being on the podcast. I appreciate that.

Matthew:  Well, I love talking with you, Heather. We can do a whole dog one later on. We can do dog mavens. That'll be awesome.

New Speaker:   Dog Mavens. I love that. Okay. We may have to actually like, I'll, I'll hit record on the video so we can have some dog action in here.

Matthew:  That would be really fun.

New Speaker:   See Miss. Thing, so for sure. Well that was our Consultants Maven for sure. With Mr. Matthew McDermott and everybody that's another episode of Mavens Do It Better. Hope you have a great day. Bye.

EPISODE 17: NEW YORK MAVEN JACK GREENHUT

Heather Newman:  So, hello everybody, we're here again with another episode of Mavens Do It Better and I'm sitting here in South Williamsburg, Brooklyn, in New York City at Bia this amazing restaurant where a good friend, bartends John. I call him Sexy John, but that's just me and I'm sitting here with a lovely friend that I play dominoes with sometimes when I'm in town and then I get to see. And do you want me to tell everybody here your name?

Jack Greenhut:  Jack Greenhut.

Heather Newman:  Jack Greenhut. You know, I don't think I actually ever knew your last name.

Jack Greenhut:  I don't know yours.

Heather Newman:  Well it's Newman. So fair enough.

Jack Greenhut:  There you have it.

Heather Newman:  That's great. So, Jack uh, how long have you lived here or where are you from?

Jack Greenhut:  Well, I've been in New York all my life except a year in San Jose. On the block about a dozen years. Well I was homeless on the block for two years. I had a car, I wasn't in the street, I had a car. I met a bunch of lovely people, the owners and patrons and original residents of the neighborhood. Who Are loving and kind and generous and I keep coming back cause I want to see them.

Heather Newman:  That's why I keep coming back here and the food's pretty good too, right?

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah, it's pretty good here. But the owners here, I don't pay for food in this restaurant They gave me a, I don't abuse that.

Heather Newman:  People take care of people, right?

Jack Greenhut:  People still take care of you here. Yeah. Or

Sexy John:        They beat you at dominoes.

Jack Greenhut:  No, they don't, I don't like that.

Heather Newman:  So, you've seen this. So, you've lived here for a while and you've seen lots of change, yeah?

Jack Greenhut:  I never lived in Williamsburg. I had a loft in Dumbo for a long time. Then I was thrown out of that. It was $350 a month.

Heather Newman:  How much again? Wait, say that again. You had a loft in Dumbo that you got kicked out of by the fire department and.

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah. But before that, I came to Dumbo in 77' before the landlord new what he had. I knew what he had, I wrote the lease.

Heather Newman:  Oh, my goodness.

Jack Greenhut:  I had law school, one year. And then we submitted the lease to an attorney, and he tweaked it a little bit and the landlord signed it. Now, it was 10 years with an option to renew for 10 years.

Heather Newman:  Are you kidding?

Jack Greenhut:  And the beginning rent was $350 a month I think, for all the space that I had.

Heather Newman:  That's amazing.

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah, I fucked him good.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, well it's an issue here, isn't it? Rent, rent control, right?

Jack Greenhut:  Well rent control is something else. I mean, rent control and rent stabilization are both issues. Rent control happened after World War II, I think. And uh, it just prevented the landlords from gouging the newly returned veterans I think is why they did that. But there were some units that had been continuously occupied and their rent is as small as mine is now, you know. Rent stabilization prevents the landlord from going to market rate for people who have been in a place a certain amount of years. I think that's correct.

Heather Newman:  So, you've been in New York City how long?

Jack Greenhut:  I'm 70. I've been in the city 69 years. I'm ready to move.

Heather Newman:  You ready to move?

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah, because I'm older, infirm, and poor and that's difficult here, I think. Although I figured it out, I got my transportation, my doctors, my friends, my pharmacy sends me my drugs if I can't go, you know? But I'm tired of the fight. Seems to me there is a lot more fight, fight the cab driver, fight this, fight that, you know? I don't want to do that anymore.

Heather Newman:  Something's kept you here though, for a long time.

Jack Greenhut:  Well, I don't have the money to move. I don't know where I go. Friend of mine said he wanted to go to Arizona. I said, Tommy, you give me five minutes notice and I'm with you. But that's not gonna happen.

Heather Newman:  Arizona's not a bad place.

Jack Greenhut:  Except for its representation.

Heather Newman:  Well, let's be fair.

Jack Greenhut:  Although the warmth is good for me, it's good for my bones.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, absolutely. When did you start playing dominos?

Jack Greenhut:  About six years ago since this place opened, John the bartender taught me how to play dominos.

Heather Newman:  Oh yeah? You're pretty fierce.

Jack Greenhut:  Why not?

Heather Newman:  I know, it's good. I think I might have won one round.

Jack Greenhut:  You may have. I may have been off my game for half a minute. I keep coming back to this neighborhood. I don't see a lot of the people that I saw years ago. They left, changed jobs or whatever, but I still know all the owners. Yeah, I just texted one of the owners up the block. He's losing a doorman. I'd love to be the doorman there. So, we'll see.

Heather Newman:  There's so many little bars and restaurants and stuff around here.

Jack Greenhut:  On these two blocks there's four bars. All of them have very different qualities and characteristics, but you can drink at all four of them.

Heather Newman:  The grand equivocator.

Jack Greenhut:  which I don't do anymore. I don't drink because I'm afraid of falling.

Heather Newman:  So, you said you went to law school?

Jack Greenhut:  For a year. I couldn't stand it, but I did rather well because I'd studied Philosophy in college,

Heather Newman:  Where'd you go to school?

Jack Greenhut:  City College, Queens City College. And philosophy tries to broaden what it encompasses. Law tries to narrow the question, so if you've ever read a ladder, you'll see all kinds of warning stickers on the ladder. Don't step on the paint tray. Don't step on the top. Don't put your ladder in mud. All of those warnings are results of a lawsuit.

Heather Newman:  You think every warning is probably the result of, like anywhere?

Jack Greenhut:  Product liability. Yeah, sure. a woman got a million out of McDonald's because of the coffee. Come on lady, give me a break.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, we're kinda litigious here in the United States.

Jack Greenhut:  Very litigious. Yes indeed.

Heather Newman:  Did you, you stopped after a year. Is it that you just didn't want to be a lawyer or?

Jack Greenhut:  I didn't like it. I didn't like thinking that way. They teach you a certain way to think, it's not normal. I've had occasion to consult lawyers in the past and I value them because what the law does is keep people off one another's necks and that you have redress. I can appreciate that. It's just, a friend of mines a lawyer and I was sitting with a guy who's a longshoreman. I said, yeah. I pointed to the longshoreman and I said, "Michael, this guy works."

Heather Newman:  What'd he say to that?

Jack Greenhut:  Michael didn't say much. He's a sweetheart though. If I have a question, he'll try to answer it for me.

Heather Newman:  So, you went to college and had a year of law school. Did you have other jobs?

Jack Greenhut:  Oh yeah. For 25 years I did construction. I renovated lofts, tenements, and brownstones, in the city, Manhattan and Brooklyn. Oh, I loved it. I can't do it now, and I miss it a lot.

Heather Newman:  Were you working the machinery, were you a foreman, how did that work out?

Jack Greenhut:  Both.

Heather Newman:  Both, you did it all.

Jack Greenhut:  I was the foreman, I was the owner of the company. I would keep projects on the side for myself. So, if I wasn't doing managerial duties I could go work.

Heather Newman:  Was it commercial stuff or residential? Like any big buildings that I know and see and gaze at?

Jack Greenhut:  Mostly residential. Interior renovations, new walls, staircases stuff like that.

Heather Newman:  What was your favorite thing?

Jack Greenhut:  Electric work. Yeah, I liked it because it was, um, you had to kind of suss things out. Sometimes they had hidden junction boxes. So, you have to figure out, well why isn't this thing responding the way it is? And then you have to find the box. And it's pretty clean work too. Which I liked.

Heather Newman:  My grandfather built my grandparents’ house.

Jack Greenhut:  Oh Wow.

Heather Newman:  He worked in a cement plant his entire life in Michigan.

Jack Greenhut:  And he died of silicosis.

Heather Newman:  Well he might have.

Jack Greenhut:  Almost.

Heather Newman:  But when they went to go redo the house, because he'd done all the wiring himself, they're like there's a blue wire, a green wire, and a yellow wire, we don't know what the hell is connected to what.

Jack Greenhut:  I've seen some of that. It's fun to suss it out though. People think because you work with your hands and your back, you're stupid. First of all, there are no stupid electricians. They're all dead. You count the fingers on a carpenter's hand, and you'll see just how careful he is. So, you gotta use your head. What I used to do, I'd have a problem, I'd think about it until I kept repeating myself. Then I had to do something and then I'd think about it again. So, I called this sort of dialectic between doing and thinking. That served me well.

Heather Newman:  I didn't know you were in construction. I hadn't asked you, I guess, so why would I know?

Jack Greenhut:  I hadn't asked you if you were married for 100 years.

Heather Newman:  Not a hundred, but you know. Something keeps bringing me back to New York.

Jack Greenhut:  Well, it's still, it's extraordinary. What I like about New York is chance. We've met by chance. Uh, I sit sometimes and meet people at the bar by bar. The bar, I gotta say this about the bar though, I really do. A bar is the most democratic institution in the United States. For the price of a Coca-Cola you can sit with anyone and talk all night. That to me is democracy. Not this sham that we have here. It's all self-selected. I got angry at a guy once in six years. Told him to shut his mouth. And that happened recently. I was ashamed of myself. Yeah, because "Hail fellow, well met". All comers welcome. But this guy was too much.

Heather Newman:  No, I think your right. I feel like New York is very welcoming. People say New Yorkers are so.

Jack Greenhut:  I think it's a very friendly, but it used to be, I don't know so much anymore cause I don't get around much, but it used to be a very friendly place.

Heather Newman:  I've found it to be very friendly too. The energy here is different from anyplace else. And you lived in San Jose you said.

Jack Greenhut:  San Jose In 1969. I was in Vista.

Heather Newman:  That was the Summer of love.

Jack Greenhut:  I also hitchhiked across the country. Took six weeks. I think in 68 I was in San Jose in 69 I hitchhiked across country.

Heather Newman:  How was that?

Jack Greenhut:  It was incredible. So, I snapped. I still tell stories about that trip.

Heather Newman:  Did you go by yourself or did you have a pal?

Jack Greenhut:  I had a pal. Richard Lucy, we called him Loose. I've actually tried to look him up, but I haven't paid for the detectives to do that. I don't have the money for that. I would like to talk to him.

Heather Newman:  It's Richard Lucy, maybe we can look him up for you.

Jack Greenhut:  Okay, L-U-C-Y. There's one in Indiana, maybe one in Utah. I got that far without having to pay.

Heather Newman:  Okay, I’ll look him up for you.

Jack Greenhut:  He's about my age. Maybe a year or two older. If he didn't shuffle off this mortal coil.

Heather Newman:  How old were you when you did this?

Jack Greenhut:  Twenty-one.

Heather Newman:  You were twenty-one when you hitchhiked across the country? Wow. Where did you start from?

Jack Greenhut:  George Washington Bridge.

Heather Newman:  George Washington Bridge? Oh, my goodness. Who picked you up first? Do you remember?

Jack Greenhut:  No, I don't. I remember going through Ohio. Lucy and I were hungry. So, he said, you know, find us a dinner or something? She goes it was down the road a piece. That was 45 minutes later. That was our first introduction to kind of rural stuff.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. And being outside of New York for the first time, right?

Jack Greenhut:  No, I was in Chicago for a half a minute. Just to try to visit someone and then I came back.

Heather Newman:  So, did you go from Ohio? I'm from Illinois and the Midwest and I've driven out west, with my parents when I was a kid. Did you go through Denver and all of that? Did you go through Colorado?

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah. We're in Denver, people took us in in Denver, took us in in Albuquerque. They took us in In Kansas City, Missouri. That's a great story. In Kansas City, Missouri we called up to the Society of Friends, the Quakers and said, look, the two of us are travelling and we don't have much money, we could use a place to stay. So, they said, why don't you call up Bert and Lynn Howard. I remember their address and everything. Right. So, we called them, and they said, yeah, come on over the address is 4712 Charlotte Avenue. This happened 50 years ago, I guess almost, yeah, Kansas City, Missouri. We got a lift from 14 people in a VW and two more didn't matter, and they dropped this right in front. Burt and Lynn were really giving people they had two children, Pagan who's three years old I know, and Theo who's a year and a half and Lucy started calling Pagan, Bad Pagan, and then BP and at the end of our two day stay his mother, Lynn, was calling her son BP. That's how cool these people were. They fed us and washed our clothes and took us to the family swimming hole. That's 1969. In 1980. I went to a New Year's Eve party. Now My friends grew up in Kansas City. His parents were at the New Year’s Eve party and knew Burt and Lynn and they were able to tell me where they were and what they were doing.

Heather Newman:  Sure, got an update.

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah. Lynn was a doctor and Burt was a film editor and they had gone back to England. She was English.

Heather Newman:  What was California like at that time?

Jack Greenhut:  We got held up at gunpoint outside Berkeley.

Heather Newman:  You did?

Jack Greenhut:  Oh yeah. Okay. Everybody out. So, we're standing there on the side of the road with our hands up and this big old hand gun in front of our faces. Fortunately, somebody came by and we jumped like gazelles over a barbed wire fence and they took off.

Heather Newman:  Why did you decide to do that? To go on that trip?

Jack Greenhut:  Maybe it's because I lost my girlfriend. That's why I got out to San Jose. I got out to San Jose because we split up and I wanted to get as far away as I could.

Heather Newman:  That's awfully far.

Jack Greenhut:  Like the immigrants right, the Calistoga Wagon. They got to the ocean and said, "Oh, fuck it. That's it then. We're going to settle in California."

Heather Newman:  What we won't do when we have a broken heart.

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah, you get on the road. So, then I came back after a year and Lucy and I, I don't know why, I never asked myself that question. I was moving, I crossed the country about 18 times. Flew, hitched, and drove about five or six times. I used to love to drive man. That bubble at two in the morning.

Heather Newman:  Nothing like it with the radio on.

Jack Greenhut:  No drugs, just

Heather Newman:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just go.

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah. Nice feeling.

Heather Newman:  Well that's so cool. What’s your favorite thing about, I don't know, just life in general?

Jack Greenhut:  Well, that's hard.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, I know. Not an easy question.

Jack Greenhut:  Well yeah because I'm not reading and I'm not writing. I haven't done that while which I am disappointed in myself. So, coming out here and making common cause with people. It's what I feel compelled to do because I'm not terribly good on my own. You know, I just ruminate and all that shit. So, I come out and people are stimulating or sometimes they are, but at least I'm part of the tribe.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, we all want to feel like we belong, right?

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. I think bars sometimes are the places where, you know it's like the tradition of the English pub, you know? All of that sort of thing, right?

Jack Greenhut:  That's where I eat on Thursday afternoons. I eat with a friend of mine, this place is almost modeled after an English pub. Yeah, food is delicious. I know everybody. I don't know all of the patrons, I know some of the patrons. I know the bartender, the owner, the waiter. I like to go where I'm greeted, you know? "Hi Jack, how are you? You want a drink, you want to sit here?" You know that kind of thing, I like that.

Heather Newman:  Did you ever see that, with Cheers, where Norm would come in the bar and they would all be like, did you ever see that?

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah, I never liked that. I don't like canned laughter. I really don't.

Heather Newman:  I went to a taping of a TV show and watched that, and I thought it was so weird.

Jack Greenhut:  Applause.

Heather Newman:  I know. I was like don't tell me to clap. I will not talk about the finger he just held up. I enjoy talking to you so much.

Jack Greenhut:  I enjoyed this too.

Heather Newman:  When I see you, you always have a sparkle in your eye.

Jack Greenhut:  If I wasn't laughing, I'd be crying.

Heather Newman:  Isn't that the truth?

Jack Greenhut:  Life's hard.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, it is, it is. There's a lot of, behind the smiling eyes, there's a lot of pain and sorrow and grief, you know?

Jack Greenhut:  Yeah, but I came through the other side. That's the thing. So, I did come through the other side.

Heather Newman:  You're doing well. Every time I see you, you've got the grin. Well everybody, I'm going to sign off with lovely Jack. Any last, hellos for the folks on the line?

Jack Greenhut:  Well, just thank you Heather. Just keep on keeping on.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, for sure. Thank you.

Jack Greenhut:  My pleasure.

Heather Newman:  Everybody, that was another Mavens Do It Better podcast here in Williamsburg. In Williamsburg, at Bia with the lovely Jack. Thanks everybody.

EPISODE 16: SOCIAL JUSTICE MAVEN ZOE NICHOLSON

Heather Newman:  Hello everyone, you are here with the Mavens Do It Better podcast and today I am in Los Angeles and we have a great friend and colleague in Long Beach, California. Zoe Nicholson. Zoe, say hi.

Zoe Nicholson:  Hi everybody. So happy to be here.

Heather Newman:  Awesome. So Zoe and I met, oh, it's like it'll be a year in January, uh, at the, Into Action art and social justice event here in Los Angeles in China Town. And uh, I met her standing in front of a piece of art and she tapped me on the shoulder and the rest is kind of history. Zoe, maybe talk about the piece of art that you were standing in front of and everybody's Zoe is, she's amazing. She's been an activist and a teacher and a lecturer and an actor and active in politics and everything for many, many years. So she's, she's a maven of many, many things and she's become very dear to me and teaching me about a lot of wonderful things in the world that I didn't know about and needed to be educated on. So, I'm thrilled to have her on the show today. So Zoe, tell us about that piece of art that led us to meet.

Zoe Nicholson:  Well, I'm even going to back you up one event before that. I seem to have the most amazing luck asking people to take my photograph when I'm at a Yosi Sergant event. Very first one I went to so many years ago before marriage equality was the law of the land, there was a show called Manifest Love and I thought there was just some gentlemen working the shop, the gift shop, and I said, "Will you come out here and take a picture of me? I really like this logo." And then when I got home I found out it was the curator of, the producer of the entire show. I had no idea. So when I went over to you and I said, you know, this means this banner means something to me "Forward into light. Forward out of darkness". It's an old Quaker hymn that was used a great deal in the first wave of, of, uh, the American women's movement. There it was, although it was sort of funny because it was pink and rather gaudy, very 2018, 2017, but I just had to have my picture in front of it and look who I went over and asked to take my picture. And then we spoke for a moment and all of a sudden you call these people over and we're, you know, sort of having this round table right in the middle of a, an amazing exhibition. So, uh, yes, it was about Inez Milholland. The woman who was on a white horse, everybody knows there was a woman on a white horse at the head of the, uh, the parade in 1913 going up Pennsylvania Avenue. But interesting, I look at the date today and we're coming up right now on the anniversary of Inez's death and she died right here in Los Angeles, the Samaritan Hospital in 1916 in November.

Heather Newman:  Wow, yeah, no, I, that is one of the wonderful things that you've taught me a lot about, about, Inez and Alice Paul and I, and you know, when I met Zoe she had said, we talked about, I took a photo and she said, do you know what this is? And I, and I said no. And so, I'm like, I always think that when I don't know, something, you know, and uh, and she was like, do you know who Alice Paul is? And I said No. And um, it really made me look at, okay, you know, being a woman in the world and wanting to really understand our history in the United States more of, you know, I went to the Women's March two years ago and you know, and you were like, well that wasn't the first one. And I was like, tell me more about that as well, you know, and I think you and I ended up talking for about three hours that day.

Zoe Nicholson:  It was astounding. I surrendered.

Heather Newman:  I was like I got you and I'm not letting you go. Um, and it was great because Eleuthera my dear friend who brought me in, you got to meet Eleuthera and then we talked with Gina Belafonte and a bunch of other folks and Yosi, that was super cool. So yeah, so you know, with and I know that, um, you're an Alice Paul scholar as well. Will you talk about Alice Paul and what it means to be a scholar of her work and all of that as well?

Zoe Nicholson:  Well, I'm going to tell you though, one of the things that might ignite interest even, moreover than imaginable, just think that the head of the largest Suffrage organization, her name was Carrie Chapman Catt, she wanted to be friends with President Wilson. President Wilson probably is the second worst president we've ever had. You can guess who the first is. And she wanted to have tea at the White House and get along with the party and everybody be lovely. And they had actually, they used hankies, their agendas and their calls to action were printed on hankies and they were a lovely group of rather demure ladies. In 1909, a ship landed in New Jersey with the, with the New Jersey women onboard, a Quaker named Alice Paul, and she had served time. She had been taught and she had been a part of Mrs. Pankhurst rise for suffrage in Great Britain.

Heather Newman:  Right, okay.

Zoe Nicholson:  And a little-known fact that in July of 2009, she was actually in class with Mrs. Pankhurst in Royal Albert Hall in London and Mrs. Pankhurst was about to launch the beginning of real violence, the beginning of burning buildings and not caring about who was in the way. And two people got up and walked out and never went back. One of them is the Quaker woman from New Jersey, Alice Paul. The other one is a young barrister who was there studying at Oxford. Who's name is Mohandas Gandhi.

Heather Newman:  Wow.

Zoe Nicholson:  And they were in the same class. They've written about it, each of them independently. I have to tell you when I find things like this my head explodes.

Heather Newman:  Well, you just gave me goosebumps.

Zoe Nicholson:  It's so exciting. And of course we know that barrister Gandhi went on to practice the law in South Africa and he did not start practicing nonviolent direct action until 10 years after Alice Paul. I also can tell you that Gandhi's longest fast was not as long as the fasting done by Alice Paul, and almost nobody knows. Now I'm going to tell you something else to blow your mind about Alice Paul. Up until 1913, Pennsylvania Avenue was thought to be a street of office buildings. The first person to ever march, ever, on Pennsylvania Avenue to go to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to protest, to demonstrate, to ask the President for something was Alice Paul. Nobody had ever done it before. So every time you see a march going up to the White House now, you might think, oh, that's interesting. What are they for? Climate change, there for veterans day, why they there? I think a woman started that, nobody knows it. Now I'm going to circle back and tell you why nobody knows it because Mrs. Catt actually paid a woman, whose name was Ida Harper, to redact Alice out of the six volume set of the History of Women's Suffrage. Mrs. Catt was so unhappy, so embarrassed by Alice, so upset that it was the invigoration of the march for suffrage of Alice Paul. She fought against it. She wrote Alice notes that said, I'm so sorry. She wrote President Wilson notes that Ms. Paula is wrong. I'm so sorry. This is not how American women feel. But of course it was the extreme agitation, the high risk activism, the demonstration, serving time in prison, fasting, relentless, and finally burning the President in effigy in 1918 that, um, you know, the President went across the road to Congress and said, I am now supporting suffrage. I'm asking you to go ahead and pass this out to the states. And um, every day I think about that, that there are people who spent their lives doing something and another person goes back with whiteout, a gallon of whiteout, and, and, and redacts them right out of history. It happens all the time and it's maddening to a researcher, just maddening.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, I suppose it makes it difficult to find, you know, I know you, you have collected a lot of information about Alice, but I think it obviously it makes it hard to find the truth or what happened or all of that, that would be in an archive or that would be somewhere that you could get your hands on. Right?

Zoe Nicholson:  It's in a box, it's in a trunk. But I, and I can tell you the best things I've ever found are either in articles, or, I am fortunate that being 70, I actually know people who worked for her. So, Was able to sit here at my desk and call people. And I'll tell you the first time I went to her house at 144 Constitution Avenue, which is now a national park site for women's suffrage. the first time I went there years ago, I knocked on the door and a woman opened the door. I didn't know her, she didn't know me and she said, "Why are you here?" And I said, "Well, I'm in love with Alice Paul and I want to see the house." And, uh, this woman said, well, I'm going to cry, she said, "I was her intern. I slept in this house and I would like to give you a tour myself." And uh, I have a YouTube of this. I'd never, never used a Flip camera before. This is, oh, I didn't know 10 years ago, 9 years ago. I didn't know that they recorded sound. So I'm holding it and I'm taking a picture, a sweeping video of Alice's bedroom, the four poster bed and the desk where she wrote and, and I'm crying.

Heather Newman:  Oh, so you can hear you weeping on it too?

Zoe Nicholson:  Yes, instead of me narrating because I didn't know it was gonna catch audio, it's just me blubbering. That was my first event and I've been there many times and they've been very good to me. They've given me full access to the library there. I think probably one of the greatest moments of my life was walking into Alice's library and finding my book. And when I found my book in that library, I mean, that's a moment.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. For sure. Is it the, is it, uh, the one about heart?

Zoe Nicholson:  The Hungry Heart, yeah, my summer of 1982. Yeah.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, that book, um, everyone details, Zoe and, is it seven, six or seven other women?

Zoe Nicholson:  Seven.

Heather Newman:  Seven other women who fasted at the State of Illinois Congress, uh, to see if we could get the Equal Rights Amendment passed in that state, which if you've been paying attention, we know that that happened this year, which is a big deal. I know from you and I talking about it, what an event that was for you having, had that experience with those women there. Will you talk about sort of what the passing of that has meant to you?

Zoe Nicholson:  Oh, it, um, well it failed miserably. it was June 27th, 1982. And Illinois did not vote to pass the amendment. An amendment goes out to the states and a super majority has to pass it in this case 38 and it failed and that was pretty much it. And the deadline was July 1st, but a bit of history almost no one knows is that of all of the amendments, only this one had a deadline.

Heather Newman:  Every amendment ever?

Zoe Nicholson:  Well, one other one did, the rest were open ended. They could take as long as they liked. So now I'm going to tell you one of my favorite stores about Alice. on the phone I was talking to a woman who, uh, was part of, was in the hearings. She was a witness in the hearings for the ERA in 1971. And I'm on the phone with her and, and I'm saying, "Why did they ask you?" She said, "I don't really know. I was a college girl and we were college girls and they invited us to give testimony about the importance of being in the constitution." But when they finally voted yes, uh, we ran to Alice's house because Alice's house was very close to the United States Congress and the judiciary committee, just like the one we just saw with the hearings with Kavanaugh, the Judiciary Committee voted to send it up for vote and send it out to the states. So they ran to tell Alice and Alice had only one question, "Was there a deadline?" And uh, she said yes, there was and Alice Paul in 1971 said, "It will never pass." Because they know the only thing they have to do is choke that last state by the deadline. And if there was no deadline, it was open ended, it would be a collection. We could go state to state as, as colors change. We're all about that now, aren't we? Watching colors change in states. And Alice knew it would make it easily if there was no deadline. But there was. And when I asked, I was talking to a woman named Bernice Sandler, the mother actually who's the mother of Title IX. I asked her, so why didn't they call on Alice Paul? Why wasn't Alice giving testimony? She wrote it in 1923. Why didn't they invite her? She was just a few blocks away. And Dr. Sandler started to cry, audibly, we're on the phone and she said, "Zoe, because we just thought she was an old lady in a wheel chair." Congress just thought she was an old lady, you know, she was at that time 86. And, uh, they never thought to invite the author of the Equal Rights Amendment to Congress to talk about it. So, you know, that's something you can't learn in a book. That's something you learn on the phone talking to somebody that, that knew her, that was part of her life that walked with her and uh, or sat in her house or, or slept in her house. So I've been really fortunate to be at that between age. She was born in 1885 and I was born in 1948. So I still, there are still some women alive who knew her, who talked to her, who were part of her life. And I've been able to know that she was relentless. And um, I'm gonna skip to the end of story because it's so fabulous. Her 92nd birthday was coming up. She was in a Quaker retirement home in Pennsylvania. And uh, she got word that Betty Ford was going to call her on her birthday and she, she's, she was worried, the story goes, I have photographs of this actually. The story goes that she told the caretakers, now you got to wheel my chair over so I can be sure that the pay phone I can reach the receiver from my chair. And they tested it and she got up that morning. They did her hair. And they did her lipstick and she has this quilt over her legs that says ERA on it and the phone rings and Mrs. Ford says, "Happy Birthday Alice!" And Alice says, "Thank you so much, but do you think you can ask your husband about the Equal Rights Amendment?" And uh, it's just astounding. You know, she left us about six months after that, but she never stopped ever. There was not a day, she didn't retire. She didn't go home. She didn't say we got the vote everybody let's lay back and take it easy. She never gave up. Being 70, you know, the idea that I have another 22 years of work inside of me. That's interesting.

Heather Newman:  Happy Birthday by the way. I know I knew that, but everyone else. Yeah, Zoe just turned 70 and what I. So many things I love about you, but I think it is being someone, I was born in 1971, so like, that's, you know, when you say those numbers to me, I think about that and I think about your passion and what drives you and I, it's really inspiring to watch what you do in the world and be a part of it. And to witness and to help amplify that because I think it's really important. So yeah. And Alice, you know, fist in the air with quilts on knees, you know.

Zoe Nicholson:  Oh fantastic. Just fantastic, yes.

Heather Newman:  Absolutely. Um, we're gonna talk to Zoe over time, over bits and podcasts and so there is, we could be on the phone and podcasting for like 12 hours with her easily if not 120. but one of the things I also wanted to have you talk about a little bit is you've had this really kind of major thing happen recently that you called me and you're like, "I have to tell you something!" And I was like, "What?", and really exciting and, you know, there's a lot going on these days because of our political climate. Uh, the Women's Movement, the Me Too Movement, the Black Lives Matter, all of these things and you know, we just had our midterm elections and all of that and you know, we're looking towards the 100 year anniversary of the 19th amendment and um, lots of motion around that in the world with different organizations and things happening because of that, leading to that August 2020 date. And um, I wanted you to share with everybody because I think I want people to tune in to what's happening and something beautiful that's happening with you. That is, I think so well deserved and about darn time. Was going to swear. But anyway, um, will you tell everybody a little bit about that?

Zoe Nicholson:  Sure, you know, uh, I, I'm really, really inventive. I'll try anything. I mean, it's, it's amazing, if you had an hour, we could just talk about all the things I've tried that never went anywhere. I remember sending a publisher, a floppy disk that I made on my Apple IIc, oh yeah, that would take a kid's name and it would place it in a storybook. So if your kid's name was Monica, you know, the story book will come out of the dot matrix printer with Monica in it. And the letter I got back said, I hope nothing like this ever happened. Books are books and they shouldn't be tampered with. And I mean, yeah, I was being chastised for this rather what we think of now, a small idea at the time it was outrageous. So about 11 months ago, 10 months ago, I saw a little notice on Instagram to apply for the possibility of meeting somebody from your past that you had been looking for, that actually had been in historical event that you had shared. So, I filled it out and honestly, I forgot all about it. Honestly, six weeks later I got invited to skype with the film producer, director, editor, three different people and they were all sitting in front of the skype machine and I, they interviewed me for about 90 minutes and said thank you very much. And that was that. And I didn't know what was going to happen. Well then in March I got an official email telling me that I had been selected to be one of the 12 people in this season's show "We'll Meet Again" with Ann Curry. And uh, so, uh, that was in March. And then April, May, everyday there would be more requests. More I need a photograph of this, I need a photograph of that. Would you answer these questions? What did you do then? We need a resume. Where did you go to school? It was nonstop and, and I was sworn to secrecy, so I'm not, you know, I like to tell people everything.

Heather Newman:  Well, of course, but I know you can't and I'm not asking for that. Of course.

Zoe Nicholson:  Even then I couldn't even tell people I was chosen. Right.? So, uh, then in June I got the scariest thing. I had to sign a piece of paper that said I would be available for 14 days with no interruptions, which means no pets, no children, no going to market, no nothing, 14 days, nothing else. And uh, I'm so fortunate that I have life that allows such a thing. And I said yes. And then they gave me a date of when they were going to show up and uh, then they would text me, this is really astounding, they would text me at night and tell me where I was going the next day.

Heather Newman:  Wow. That's set on the fly. Yeah.

Zoe Nicholson:  And I'm not that spontaneous of a person. So, uh, anyway, um, yeah, the first thing, I didn't meet them until Springfield, Illinois and they flew me to Springfield and on August 31st I left Long Beach and flew to Springfield and for the very first time I walked into the Rotunda of the Springfield House, stood where I had been, you know, for 40 days with Phyllis Schlafly and, and NOW, and all of them, mayhem, Betty Ford, uh, was there all the mayhem of the Equal Rights Amendment. And uh, so they shot for 14 days. And lo and behold, I, I don't, you know, I suppose it means something. I don't know what it means, but my episode is the finale. Two ladies, uh, are being featured myself and the woman who is the first woman I believe, who began as a stewardess and ended up actually being a pilot of a jetliner. And uh, so they interweave two stories and the final one airs on January, Tuesday, January 8th, and it's, We'll Meet Again with Ann Curry. And this one particular show is about women. And uh, just because I'm obsessive, I know you'll understand everybody who's listening to me, you know why I am saying this, that it's just three days before Alice Paul's birthday. Her birthday is January 11th.

Heather Newman:  Oh, okay. Excellent timing. And you know, we've got, there's lots of things in January happening around Women's Marches and Women's Movements and all of that too. So, I think

Zoe Nicholson:  Yes, the House will sit down.

Heather Newman:  Yes, poignant.

Zoe Nicholson:  His penis will be snipped, and things will happen. Yay.

Heather Newman:  Absolutely. So yeah, so everyone, Zoe and I've been talking a long time and we, we often meet and go walk on the beach and talk about things and she's been so generous with her time with me and her beautiful history with me. And um, I really wanted to bring her onto the show and also invite her on more so that we can get more of her amazing work in the world that she's done for 70 years. And since she first drew breath, cause I know

Zoe Nicholson:  I would totally agree. I was a rebel at that moment.

Heather Newman:  Certainly, yes. So, from the stories I've heard. So, um, I think for today we're gonna I want to close out and say thank you and invite everyone to keep an eye on the podcast for more with Zoe more maybe more tea with Zoe. And, and, and talk about that a little bit too before we, before we end

Zoe Nicholson:  Well, tea is code for revolution. If you know your American history, you know that every revolution we had centered around tea. It's been really integral to all of us seeking liberation from whatever country at whatever time. For some reason tea comes into play. It must be a medicinal plant. The indigenous people could probably explain that to us.

Heather Newman:  Sure. Yeah. So, one of the things, Zoe does a myriad of different things, but she has this beautiful one woman show that's called Tea with Alice and Me and that is Alice Paul, which I got to see last year down in Long Beach and um, it's something that she does and she, she's brilliant. I mean you can hear her. She's brilliant at lecturing and history and stuff. And so, one of the things that she does is that one woman show. So those of you who listen to me, I know that I'm a theater major and all of that, that, you know, coming around in this year, you know, Tea with Alice and Me could be a really great thing to bring into a university or college or when you know, your groups that are interested in women's history and US history and all of that stuff. And so that's, you can check all that stuff out online at her site, which is ZoeNicholson.com. And um, yeah, and we're going to talk more about all of these fun things with her, um, as we go along on the Mavens Do It Better podcast. So, and be sure we're going to, I want to do some like viewing parties on January eighth to check out this awesome event that's going to happen and I'm so excited for you for that and for so many things. But, um, I just wanted to say thank you for being a really amazing force in my life and a friend and saying yes to this and I'm excited to hear more from you on lots of things so

Zoe Nicholson:  Welcome. Let's rock!

Heather Newman:  Okay, let's rock it.

Zoe Nicholson:  Times a wasting.

Heather Newman:  Times a wasting for sure. All right everyone. That is the latest episode of Mavens Do It Better. Have a lovely day and keep on keeping on. Cheers.

EPISODE 15: MUSIC MAVEN DJ JOHNNY “JUICE” ROSADO

Heather Newman:  Hey everyone, it's Heather Newman back here with another Mavens Do It Better podcast and I'm sitting here today in Los Angeles with a dear friend Johnny Juice Rosado, DJ Johnny Juice Rosado.

Johnny Juice:  That's right.

Heather Newman:  And uh, we are chilling today and hanging out and catching up and he's in town. So, I thought let's do a little podcast together. Um, we've known each other now for a really long time. Met at NAMM years ago because of Microsoft.

Johnny Juice:  That's right.

Heather Newman:  Because I had a job with Cakewalk doing their booth and Johnny was one of the speakers. And what were you speaking on there? Do you remember?

Johnny Juice:  I did a project that was recorded in sonar for their flagship software and I was explaining how the recording process and the mixing process was completed totally within sonar. And I did this just huge type of presentation with the song and it was a, it was a Public Enemy song with a live band as well. And I think we were doing a cover of a James Brown song.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Johnny Juice:  Think it was “Soul Power”.

Heather Newman:  “Soul Power”. Yeah, I remember that. Absolutely. And what was cool about that event, it was just, it was neat because like all the people that worked on it, we've all remained friends and sort of hung with each other, know each other and you know, a lot of those cats before.

Johnny Juice:  That's right. Yeah.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. You know, those folks. So, I got introduced to sorta everybody then Carl and Brandon and all of those folks, and now see them. I just saw Carl and Brandon at a Foo Fighters thing couple of weeks ago and I see Carl all over cause he goes to the music events here like I do.

Johnny Juice:  Right, he's on the west coast now.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, he's pretty fun. So, you mentioned Public Enemy. You want to tell everybody your involvement there?

Johnny Juice:  Sure. Never heard of them. I've been involved with Public Enemy since the very first album. Uh, I came on board while they were at Spectrum City before they became Public Enemy and they were a radio, a radio troupe as well as a live DJ kind of crew. So, they would go around and do events and they would throw parties, that's what they were doing. And they did radio, college radio and they were really trying to do radio. That was their real thing and the plan was to find rappers and DJs and make groups and manage them. That was their whole plan. Public Enemy was a means to an end. They were going to. They decided to make a group off of a song they did they called “Public Enemy No. 1”, which was done in 83 and in 86 after being harassed by Rick Rubin they finally decided, okay fine, we'll sign with you. Seriously. It was just like that Chuck didn't want to get signed. He was supposed to be signed as Chucky D, but he didn't want to do that. He promised Flav's, mom he'd take care of him. So, he says, "I won't sign unless you signed Flav". Now Flavor wasn't a rapper per se. So, Russell Simmons especially was like, “Why am I going to sign a hype man? You know, he could go on stage with you, but I'm not going to sign him too”. Chuck says, "Well, I'm not doing it unless you sign him". So, when he did that, it couldn't be Chuck D anymore, or Chucky D as he was called, so they decided to change the name to Public Enemy. Simultaneously while they were looking for rappers and DJs, they had a contest to pick these guys. I won the DJ portion of the contest. Two of the guys that were in my crew at the time that went up there to participate in the contest was a rapper name KBMC and the other one was MC Chill-o-ski. Chill-o-ski decided not to come to the contest because he was in Brooklyn visiting his pops. Those rappers are now known as Charlie Brown and Busta Rhymes on Leaders of the New School. We was a group together before this. So, I won the contest. I got down with their crew and eventually, Chuck brings me back and forth home because I didn't have a car, he asked me if I would like to scratch on some of the records. He played a tape in his Cougar.

Heather Newman:  Oh, Cougar the car.

Johnny Juice:  So, he played the tape and the tape ended up being, what would later be "Yo! Bum Rush the Show".

Heather Newman:  Wow.

Johnny Juice:  So I went and scratched on that and that was the beginning of my involvement with Public Enemy and I became a member of the Bomb Squad and the rest is history. And I'm still obviously real tight with Chuck and with Charlie Brown and Buster and Dinco because I did scratching on their first album as well, and I've produced a bunch of stuff for all of them. So actually, there's a new Leaders of the New School album coming out soon.

Heather Newman:  Yeah? new stuff.

Johnny Juice:  Yes, New stuff.

Heather Newman:  That's exciting. Yeah. And thank you for helping me connect with Chuck D for the IntoAction when he came and did the social justice panel with us here in LA in January and he was so lovely, and it was really cool to meet him. So, I really enjoyed that. And you, like you travel as much as I do. I know. And you do a lot of teaching and lecturing and stuff. Will you tell folks about that because I think it's super cool that you're doing it? You know, you do everything. I mean, you got your hands on the turntable, you're making music, you're producing people, you’re teaching. So, tell folks about that portion of what you do.

Johnny Juice:  Yeah. Well, you know, one of the things that, that we've tried to do, and I'm from the Bronx originally before I moved to Long Island with Chuck and them, is that we've seen the youth succumb to all the dangers and the vices that the city has. So, we always tried to give back and try to make sure that the children are given more opportunities, better opportunities or some knowledge to help them navigate that type of environment. So, as a member of the Bronx Boys, one of the first b-boy crews ever in hip-hop. Started in 74' as a graffiti crew. 75' as a b-boy crew. I'm the vice president, global vice president, 55 chapters worldwide. We strive to help the children, you know, become better people through the arts that we've learned growing up, which became eventually hip-hop. Now there's another side of the fence. The other side is academia. Now, those people, a lot of times were fortunate to not have grown up in the areas that some of us have, but they still want to understand, and they want to get a glimpse or to really fully comprehend why and what, when it comes to hip-hop, not just the commercial aspect of somebody rapping. So, I have three lectures that I do. I travel, I just came, I was in Hawaii recently at the University of Hawaii Manoa, and lectures range from theoretical and philosophical to technical. Starting on the technical portion or the cultural portion, there's Starting from Scratch, which is one of my lectures where I explain how the hip-hop DJ, or the turntablist, became the turntablist, which is different than a DJ. DJ plays records. A turntablist manipulates records like an instrument. And Starting from Scratch is a lecture and a performance together. So not only do you hear the lecture, I bring my equipment and you get, I get to show you how the scratchers evolved, from what they were to what they are now.

Heather Newman:  Behold the Purple Crayon. Right. Did you see the Get Down?

Johnny Juice:  Yes.

Heather Newman:  Did you like it?

Johnny Juice:  Yeah. Thought it was cool. A good friend of mine Rahiem from the Furious Five, also in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, was one of the consultants on that as well as Flash. And there's a reason why it's called the Get Down because that's the part of the record, the break that was spun so the b-boys could rock to it. They called it the Get Down, eventually was called the break and then the break boys would dance to it and the break boys shortened to b-boys. Or the Bronx Boys. So yeah, I love the show. You know, people kind of pandered saying it wasn't 100 percent accurate, but it wasn't a biography, or it wasn't,

Heather Newman:  Yeah, it was a flavor of what was the time, right?

Johnny Juice:  It was based on, but it wasn't trying to be 100 percent historically accurate.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. That's cool that you show, you talk about it and then you show everybody too. I mean, I think I took some Scratch Academy classes after we met here in Los Angeles with that crew because it was, I was like this is fun.

Johnny Juice:  It is, it's cool. And if the more you get into the more you realize you can do drum rudiments on the turntables, if you know how to. I mean, I do. I actually notate my scratches in percussion notation. So, I mean, when I'm working with my good friend Swiss Kriss, Grammy Award winning drummer for John Legend or formerly from John Legend, and he does his own things now, phenomenal drummer. So, you know, we did our own lecture together as well. It's called The Art of Recycling, which I do on my own now, but it's, I call Run It: The Art of Hip-Hop Production where I explain how there's four or five eras of hip-hop production that are constantly being recycled and nothing has changed really.

Heather Newman:  What are we in right now?

Johnny Juice:  We are in basically a third iteration of the 808 phase of hip-hop production or the Marley Marl era where

Heather Newman:  Is that one, two, or three or four?

Johnny Juice:  That would probably be two.

Heather Newman:  Be two.

Johnny Juice:  Right, the first one would be the Sugar Hill Gang era, which is, or the live band era where live bands would play, replay breaks and then rappers would rhyme over them. Second era was like very early drum, thrown 808, DMX, the Linn Drum, and then possibly a little scratch stab over it. Then eventually the scratch stabs became scratching longer phrases of music. Right now, it's the 808 phase all over again, except instead of stabbing, you know, throwing us a scratch stab or scratching a musical phrase, they just use synthesizers. So, it's Kinda like a hybrid of the Marley Marl era and the New Jack Swing era where Teddy Riley mixed hip-hop drums with a lot of RNB. So, these guys are mixing basically the 808 drums that we already used back in the eighties with a lot of the synthesizer sounds that came out like in the mid to late nineties.

Heather Newman:  Everything kind of evolves, but then adds two, rolls over again.

Johnny Juice:  It always does that. I mean I remember, you know, there's the record Dollar Bill by my homeboy, super rhymes himself, Jimmy Spicer "Dollar Bill Y'All" - dollar bill y'all. Then it was sampled and done over again in the two thousands. And you know, and that happens sometimes you never know. "Cold Gettin' Dumb" was done by Just-Ice in the eighties and was sampled and redone in the nineties, you know, sometimes you don't even realize that that's an actual old rap record. Milk and Gizmo, the Audio 2 did "Top Billin'" and then it was sampled by 50 Cent for "I Get Money", you know, so the thing it's always, you know, it's always recycled and every once in a while, you get something real fresh. But you know, that's one of the lectures and in the last lecture I have is on the Tao of hip-hop, the way of hip-hop. Keeping it ethereal. It's like keeping it real, ethereal, because it's not really tangible because I argue that hip-hop is not necessarily a culture, but more so the process.

Heather Newman:  Why is that?

Johnny Juice:  Because hip-hop is different for everyone. Everybody claims hip-hop is this, that we say hip-hop is really the four elements, you know, the five elements. Four elements being, you know, emceeing, deejaying, b-boying, aerosol art or graffiti. And then the fifth element is knowledge of self. So that's what it's supposed to be. But I don't really prescribe to that because back in the seventies when there was a park jam, everybody in that park jam that went and partied, out of all of those people, very few of them practiced any of those elements. There were a few b-boys in the crowd. There was even fewer DJs and DJ crews and MCS and then the graffiti writers weren't at the jams at all because they were at the yard, you know, writing on trains. So, what were most of the people doing there? Just dancing.

Heather Newman:  Dancing their asses of.

Johnny Juice:  Right. They weren't break dancing as they called it later. They weren't b-boying or rocking or any of that, but they were hip-hop. So, if they weren't any of the elements, but they were what mostly comprised of the hip-hop scene, then what were they? So, I can't say that hip-hop is an element-based thing. What I say is that hip-hop is a process. So in other words, it's like, and, and I have a theory, I call it the Diffractive Prism Theory of Hip-Hop where, like a prism, when you shine light through it, it breaks into a whole bunch of different colors and hip-hop is your internal prism and you filter your life experiences through that prism and whatever comes out on the other side is what comes out. But the product is not hip-hop. The process of you filtering it is.

Heather Newman:  I love that.

Johnny Juice:  So, if you take a fedora hat, right? And you put it on an old dude, it's just a fedora hat on an old dude, but you put it on Run DMC and all of a sudden, it's hip-hop. Adidas has been around forever, but you throw it on a pair of Run, you know, Run DMC throws on a pair of Adidas, they're hip-hop. Give me two Billy Squier records they're rock records, but when I am manipulating them, it's hip-hop. The second I stop they're just two rock records again.

Heather Newman:  "Everybody Wants You".

Johnny Juice:  Right.

Heather Newman:  I love that song.

Johnny Juice:  I love that song too.

Heather Newman:  I had that as a ring tone for a long time.

Johnny Juice:  Stroke me, stroke me. You know when it comes to that, you know that dynamic, I feel that hip-hop is not a product because if that's the case, you can take someone like Brittany Spears and she could rap on a record and even scratch on it. Does that make it hip-hop? And somebody can say no. I'm like, well then what? Why? They would say the intent, but you didn't say that. You said hip-hop is the elements. She's practicing the elements, so why is that not considered hip-hop? Because people will say that the intent is not there, but you didn't say that when you defined hip-hop as the culture, did you? So, there's a lot of people that got into hip-hop that made great rap music because rap music is not hip-hop. Hip-hop is a part of rap, rap is a part of hip-hop as a whole. So, if you're going to say that, then how can you tell? How can you tell what anyone's intent was one? Two, some of these cats that were real dope actually got into it only for money. So, you're saying that's not hip-hop? Because some of them guys made some classic records. So, at what point do you determine what real hip-hop is, what it really isn't? So again, you're basing it on the product, or the output.

Heather Newman:  And not the process of the creation of it and the, say the elements that may happen to be a part of it. Maybe there's two or three or four or maybe just one or whatever.

Johnny Juice:  There's a lot of cats that say, "Yo, I'm hip-hop". But they never really b-boyed. They were never rappers. I mean they might've messed around and rapped a little here and there. But they're not really Rappers, they're not DJs, they're not MCS, they don't do any graffiti. So how do, how do you determine that you’re hip-hop? And they and they determine it based on their intent on what they feel. So, if that's the case then it's based on your filter of events that have occurred in your life. You filter things in a certain way and that filtering process is what makes you hip-hop. So, if that's the case, Hip-hop isn't the product, it isn't the end result, Hip-hop is the actual physical process.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. I like that. Um, we were talking about, so you've worked with Prince, the dear departed, amazing, wonderful Prince. And can you talk about working with him a little bit?

Johnny Juice:  Yeah. Prince is a genius. He was a genius. There's really not much you can say about that other than that. But the dude, you know, we had to do a recording and, it was a very limited interaction, so it wasn't like I did a whole song with him. It was really about someone else that actually had recorded vocals for Prince happened to be there and record it. But all the stories are true. He offered to play basketball. There was no, there was no pancakes offered. Guy is obviously extremely talented and I think that there's a side of him that even he wishes people could see, but he doesn't know how to present it. I talk with Ms. Mavis Staples, who I also recorded with, from the Staples Singers and she and her sister Yvonne, who passed away, you know, recently, fairly recently, we were talking about that and she said when she first met Prince it was right at a show he did, they were flown in. Prince said I want them to come to the show and just flew them in. And they met Prince there on the side of the stage and Prince came off the stage and Yvonne was telling me, Yvonne Staples, that he didn't get any acknowledgement from any of the people in his staff. Like, you know, usually you get off stage. "That was dope! That was great!" Nothing, it's like, people are scared to say anything to him. So, he walked up to the back, right to the side of the stage and Yvonne was there and she looked at him, she gave him a hug and he started crying. And it's like, just like every other artist, we, we wish for people to understand.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. We all need people to appreciate the things we do, right? No matter who you are and how famous or whatever, you know, like, "That was cool. Thank you". Right? Yeah.

Johnny Juice:  But the thing is, you know, sometimes it's like, I don't know Prince well enough to save him. Maybe they, maybe those people in his staff had said before, "That was great!" And he's like, "I know." You know what? Maybe that's what he said and they're like I guess I'm not gonna say that again. I have no idea. But, you know, and I ended up becoming good friends with Cat Glover, his dancer for many years and his confidant, a very good friend of his and she has given me insight into Prince's life that I didn't have at one point. And at one point I was supposed to actually redo Alphabet Street with her. She was actually on the original record with him. We got blessings from Prince to redo it. But we never got a chance to do it. And Prince passed away. And then Cat was inconsolable, so

Heather Newman:  Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah. There is a documentary I watched. Um, that was sort of, it was leading up to him passing, that was, it was really heartfelt and really sort of showing sort of the people that lived close to Paisley Park and what he did with them and all of that. And so much of that stuff you just didn't know. You know?

Johnny Juice:  Yeah, it's real sad.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. It's tough. And you know, with your, I know, you know, working with him and you, we could sit here for, I dunno, probably two days and have you list everybody you've worked with because you've worked with everybody and their Mama and um,

Johnny Juice:  I like working with their mothers better.

Heather Newman:  Hey Mamí.

Johnny Juice:  What's up Mamí? Oh yeah, Mamí. Que tú quieres?

Heather Newman:  I was just visiting your homeland. I was just in Puerto Rico.

Johnny Juice:  Puerto Rico!

Heather Newman:  I know we were just talking about that and I know that, you know, your family, you've had, you have family and back and forth down there. And you worked on an album to help support the relief efforts. 

Johnny Juice:  Yes, I hooked up with a friend of mine, Taína Asili, and Taína sang in multiple iterations of different crews, including a group that I worked with called Ricanstruction. They were a Puerto Rican punk group and the lead rapper, singer from Ricanstruction was Not4Prophet. Um, he actually asked me to record with him, so we made an album under the name X-Vandals. So Taína sang on that. Years later I met her because I was living in upstate New York. And I'm like, "What are you doing up here?" She was like, "I live here. What are you doing up here?" I'm like, "I live here!" So, it was like, wow. And one day her conguero, the guy that plays the congas for her couldn't show up for a gig. So, she called me she's like, I know this is probably not your level of stuff anymore, but you know, I know we can't pay you as much. I'm like, just ask me what you want to ask me. She goes, you know, my Conga player can't make it. Can you? Can you come to a gig? I'm like, of course, you know, so I came out, I played for her, so then I became a backup Conga player. So, one day, we had a terrible accident, a terrible event, the hurricane that hit Puerto Rico that devastated the island. So, she said, you know, I really feel strongly that we should put together an album. So, what she did, she contacted multiple artists to submit music. And then she was going to put on Sofrito, which is a song about her grandmother and Sofrito is this concoction we make that kind of goes on everything we cook so, and, but that's like kind of like the lifeblood of us. The Sofrito, right? So, she wanted a remixed version. So, I did a remix for that and um, and we raised money and it went to some grassroots organizations to help people on the island, of course, because that's how, that's our home.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, absolutely. And you have, and I loved it so much and it's been fun talking to you about it, like just being there too, you know, and talking about food and everything else. You and I love the foods.

Johnny Juice:  I'm a foodie.

Heather Newman:  The mofongo! And, and uh, I've been listening and watching your new project that you have with KJ.

Johnny Juice:  Yeah, The Odyssy.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, The Odyssy. Will you tell everybody a little bit about that because that's all brand new and coming out.

Johnny Juice:  It's brand new. It's different. It's weird. He's like a 6'6" South African skinny Sting, like he has a Sting-ish type voice. It's weird, right?

Heather Newman:  He does! I've talked to him on the phone because we're going to do a podcast with you and him in a bit, but yes.

Johnny Juice:  And uh, and then, you know, he wanted me to do scratching on some of his solo stuff he was going to do after meeting him, the same people I met you through, Carl Jacobson.

Heather Newman:  Oh, get out of town!

Johnny Juice:  Yeah, through Carl and all that stuff and Cakewalk. He was a CEO of a company that made pcs for music. So, I bought a bunch of pcs from him. He left the company and he wanted to do his music again and instead of being, you know, a bass player like he normally is, he wanted to be the front man. So, he, I’m going to do a solo album. He asked me to do some scratching and some stuff I did, it was like, “Hey, you know, I need somebody to go on the road with me, uh, you know, anybody?” That turned into a "Hey! Let's be a group!" And then it turned into, "Hey you got any beats?" And you know, so it kind of graduated that way. So, I sent him some stuff and then it totally changed the trajectory of what he was working on. And it became this weird thing where I'm giving them these hard ass hip-hoppy beats that meet Electronica that also have some jazz and then you know, it's very musical. So even though the drums are hard on some hip-hop stuff and I'm doing some scratching, I'm mostly playing keyboard on it. I played bass on a lot of the stuff, and then I had Kevin replay it. Played percussion, some drums. And then he even got me singing background on a lot of this stuff. So, you know.

Heather Newman:  And you have a video coming out.

Johnny Juice:  Yes. We have a video called "Alone". It's on our website, theoddysy.com, t-h-e-o-d-d-y-s-y.com. We also have "Incantation", the first song that we put out, which is more drum and bass electronic-ish than "Alone". "Alone" is like if you took his vocals off, it'd be a rap record, well until the chorus because then the chord changes and stuff.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, it's layered.

Johnny Juice:  It does different. It's like a, it's like a jazz meets soul meets hard hip-hop plus, but his voice is so, so ethereal, it floats over everything. And it's a great combination. I mean it's different, you know, I mean everybody feels their stuff is great. I feel this stuff is unique. So, I think it has a voice and I think people could really, resonate with a lot of people because the subject matter is pretty much my life over the past two years. And maybe even Kevin, KJ's the stuff that he, he was able to tap into a lot of the pain I was going through with his lyrics and he felt musically what I was trying to say, and he did it vocally. Phenomenal mind reading skills for KJ and if you've ever been through a lot of pain at one time and didn't know why or knew why but couldn't stop it. Any of that stuff, you'll feel this album because it really, it really speaks to, you know, exactly, you know, the process that you go through with the ups and downs until you figure out yourself.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, I connected with it for sure. Yeah. And knowing you too, and, you know, us being friends and stuff like watching you go through this process, it's been, it's been really lovely, and I know it's been tough so it's, I love that you have something new that you're passionate about.

Johnny Juice:  Oh yeah.

Heather Newman:  You know, I mean you're passionate about everything but like, but, but you know what I mean, but like something that's able to take what you go through and I mean that's why we make art, right? That's why we share that, so that we all feel not so alone. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's exciting. And there's more album to come and more songs and that's coming out?

Johnny Juice:  That should be out at the beginning of the year. It was supposed to come out already, but we've had a few major setbacks. I lost my grandmother beginning of the year and that kind of set me back a lot. Then I also moved, that set us back and then we also had other things we were working on. It kind of pushed back a little bit. And plus, we have some guest appearances on the album, kind of pushed stuff back. Charlie Brown from Leaders of the New School, we have DMC, from Run DMC, we have Chuck D, we have Keith Murray. And then we reached out to Vernon Reid from Living Colour.

Heather Newman:  Oh wow.

Johnny Juice:  He may do a guitar piece. And then Davy DMX, the legendary Davy DMX, plays guitar on a joint, believe it or not, he was part of a group called Orange Krush back in the days. They did a song called "Action", but he also produced a lot of Run DMC's stuff.

Heather Newman:  Nice. Yeah. Speaking of, and we're gonna get KJ on and we're going to do one and go a little deeper into your process and stuff. So, you mentioned DMC, so fun fact, so I got another Microsoft gig where I was working for Massive, who did all the advertising inside of Guitar Hero and all of that. Right. So Guitar Hero 4 was coming out, and I had met Juice at a NAMM and I was in New York and I called him up and I was like, "Hey, I'm putting this thing together with advertising teams where we're going to make them teams, they're going to be bands, we're going to have a Guitar Hero 4 you know, contest." Right. And I had to find a venue and everything. And you remember I got that venue and then some crazy

Johnny Juice:  On the west side of Manhattan.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. Well it was originally supposed to be at the David Copperfield place and then some crazy stuff went down, and the doors were locked and then I had to move it over to the Chelsea. I can't remember what that was. That venue.

Johnny Juice:  I remember the name of the venue, but I remember those moves and that venue was actually nice.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. I liked the venue too, but I talked to him and I was like, "Hey, would you think about being a guest judge for me?" Right? And you said yes, which was great. And I said, “So do you think you know, you can get somebody else?” And what you said to me was this, you said, "Yeah, yeah, I'll get you somebody else. I'll get D." And I was like, okay, who's D? And you're like, uh, Darryl. And I'm like again, who are you talking about? And you're like DMC, you know, Darryl, from Run DMC. I was like, oh, that was hilarious.

Johnny Juice:  And he loved that.

Heather Newman:  I know.

Johnny Juice:  He had such a good time.

Heather Newman:  He's a sweetheart and yeah, it was. So, it was just funny because we, we sort of knew each other but not so well that I knew who D was in your life, you know what I mean?

Johnny Juice:  You know, I have to, sometimes I have to, you know, I have to kind of step back and say, you know what? They might not know that I see these people because I've known them for so long.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, sure.

Johnny Juice:  I mean my daughter was calling DMC Uncle Darryl, right? She would tell everybody, you know, she knows Uncle Darryl and Uncle Joe, Run DMC. Right. So, she was, she was in elementary school, so she goes to the library, this is like second grade or something like that or something, they really go to the library, library. So, somebody pulls out a book and it's a Run DMC, it's a book about Run DMC. She's like, "Hey, I know them. That's Uncle Darryl and Uncle Joe." And they're like, what? Little kids are like, “What do you mean that's Uncle Joe? What are you talking about?” So, you know, so her teacher was like, you know, I think your daughter's telling like, you know, little lies, little white lies. Says she has an Uncle Darryl and Uncle Joe, and my daughter's like half Puerto Rican, half black. So, she's not as dark as Run and D. So, it's like, you know, she's saying that those are her uncles. I'm like, well they kinda are. And she's like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, so I explained and they're like, ohhh. So, it's real funny sometimes. I don't realize that they're, these are guys I just know.

Heather Newman:  Well sure. You know, you and I have been friends for close to a decade now. Like now I know who you're talking about when you say someone's name or their, you know, performing name or their DJ name, you know what I mean? I know who you're talking about now. But that was funny because that was sort of the first time we'd sort of worked together in that way and it was a, it was great. And he came out to Sonoma County a couple of years later because he does lectures as well. And so, he did a history of hip-hop lecture and I know does the Comicon stuff. And so yeah. So, it's been, it's been fun sort of seeing how people start off one place and then do all kinds of different things, you know. Do you have anybody you're producing right now that you want to talk about and tell people about?

Johnny Juice:  Other than the Odyssy, I'm producing Charlie Brown and Dinco. They're called New School Inc. Other than Leaders of the New School, I mostly only do Leaders of the New School stuff, I did an artist called HiCoup h-I-c-o-u-p, and he's an actual artist, artist. He actually paints, but he also is a phenomenal rapper. We did an album called Beast of Burden where every title has an animal in it. So, there's "Monkey Suit". There's "Crocodile Tears". There's "Booze Hound", you know, because he had a problem with alcohol at one time. So, all of the songs have a beast in it. And then the second side are all titles of songs that show what the burden of being a black man is supposed to be. So, Beast of Burden is that album. It's on the HiCoup, HiCoup's website, hicoup.com. But I'm also working with a, with a couple of film companies because I do movie scores.

Heather Newman:  You were telling me about the Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Tell everybody about that too.

Johnny Juice:  Yeah, I did, I worked on this movie called On the Shoulders of Giants for Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Uh, it was based on his book and it's about the first all-black or African American basketball team, pro basketball team called the Harlem Rens, short for the Harlem Renaissance, and they were attached to the Harlem Renaissance Hotel and Casino or whatever it was. So, these guys, and they had a black owner, so Bob Johnson, so a lot of firsts, you know, and they won a world championship and they whipped, and this before there was an NBA, you know, they would do barnstorming. They would go around the country and going into barns and play other basketball teams and they would whip them, you know, and they will do this while they would get tripped by the people watching the game or get people to try to stab them with stuff. And yeah, so there were, it wasn't just five on five, it was five on, on everybody. And these guys were ridiculous. And um, yeah, I learned a lot working on that and I got to work with Herbie Hancock, Wynton Marsalis, Will.i.am, Chuck, Bill Cunliffe. So, we got a few NAACP Image Award nominations for best album, which was me, best dual group collaboration, best documentary, won best documentary. So, it was a great process and working with Kareem Abdul Jabbar was great. Brilliant man by the way.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, and you've, I mean you have a Grammy and you've been nominated for Emmys.

Johnny Juice:  Emmy awards. I've got Platinum albums and all that and who cares? Um, I mean

Heather Newman:  You know, yeah, but I mean it's nice to be recognized by certain entities for your work. Right?

Johnny Juice:  I mean that's cool but sometimes those are all just a big popularity contest. I mean I'm, I'm in the Long Island Music Hall of Fame but I'm also on the education advisory board for them, which I find more important actually. And then the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction in 2013 and that's cool, but like, you know, like really? Who cares?

Heather Newman:  Well it's also about like, you know, getting to like have that experience with the other people, green room fun and you know what I mean, like meeting people and

Johnny Juice:  Hanging out with Tom Petty. I got to speak to him like, what? Half an hour, 45 minutes, never met the dude. Great Guy. And then of course he passed away recently. So, I got a chance to talk to him, you know, and those things I find more important than any of the accolades and other stuff.

Heather Newman:  Those sometimes lead to those cool conversations or things because you're in the same place at the same time because of something, something, something, you know.

Johnny Juice:  I was talking to David Grohl about him playing the devil in The Pick of Destiny, Tenacious D's The Pick of Destiny. Out of all the things we could talk about is like Nirvana, no. Foo Fighters, no. “Yo, so how was it playing the devil in The Pick of Destiny?”, “Oh, it was great, but 8 hours of makeup was terrible, you know?” So the regular conversations with people like that, agree.

Heather Newman:  I was telling you that he had, that Dave Grohl handed my Mama brisket last month and I was like, that is the coolest thing that I'm

Johnny Juice:  Mama, Mama brisket.

Heather Newman:  Mama brisket, I know for sure. So you know, you do so many things and I love it that you have such a passion for education and the lecturing and I've seen you spin and you spent you, um, that night at the Garage Band, you not only did the judging stuff but you were there, you know, doing your scratching and stuff and I guess, you know, like you're a master turntablist, like I watch you and I'm just, I'm always, every time blown away. Where's your, where's that happy place for you? I know you do so many things, but like when you're like, this is it, this is my jam. This is my element. This is my thing. Like what is it that you're doing in that area, you know?

Johnny Juice:  Yes. It's everything. My happy place is whatever I'm at where I'm at. It might be me scratching a record right now. It might be me going on a two-mile swim. It might be me sitting on a beach, might be me playing with my grandkids. It might be me playing with a nice young lady. You know what I'm saying? You never know. My happy place is whatever's happening at the time. I live my life going forward saying, you know, I'm grateful for whatever happens, and I try to be present as much as I can, which is essential for happiness and it's actually essential for being good at a lot of different things. You want to be good at one thing, fine. If you want to be good at everything, be present because if you're present, you concentrate on what you're doing and nothing else matters but that thing, at that time.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. Do you have maybe a piece of advice for people coming up in the world? I mean, I think you kind of just gave a heck of a lot of it, but anything else?

Johnny Juice:  Yeah man, don't listen to a word I just said. Go out there and find what makes you happy and when you find it cultivate it, get good at things. Learn. Never stop learning. I mean anything else, that doesn't matter. Never stop learning because when you stop learning, that's when you start dying.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, for sure. Well thank you for talking to me.

Johnny Juice:  Thank you.

Heather Newman:  I know. I'm like, we've been talking all, for a while anyway.

Johnny Juice:  This was actually part eight of a 2,000-part series.

Heather Newman:  An ongoing conversation with Hedda and Johnny Juice.

Johnny Juice:  No doubt.

Heather Newman:  Awesome. Well y'all. Thank you so much honey. I appreciate it. And everyone that's Mavens Do It Better podcast again. Have a beautiful day and more soon.

Johnny Juice:  Peace.

Heather Newman:  Peace. Bye.

EPISODE 14: MUSIC MAVEN JUAN CARLOS

Heather Newman: Hello everyone, we're here with another edition of the Mavens Do It Better podcast and I am sitting in San Juan, Puerto Rico in the First Colonial Bank of America with the wonderful Juan Carlos who I got to see last night, um, play Flamenco guitar and his show with his wonderful dancers. And so, I asked him if I could interview him and have him tell us all about himself. So, thank you so much for saying yes.

Juan Carlos: Well, it's a. for me it's something very special because you do a lot of tv things and a lot of presentations personally, but radio for me it's, it's something that I had with me since I was a kid. when I was born, I was born, as you know, in Barcelona. I was born after the war, so Barcelona We didn't have TV in those days in Spain we have only one radio station which was a national radio station. So that was our only entertainment at the house was very antique, you know, telephone. And we learned whatever the dictator was governing in Spain. We, you know, we learned what he let us know to know, but uh, to people and in that, in that country at that age, it's like being in the movie black and white. There was no colors. Because there was this after the terrible war, 1 million dead people, brothers, among, brothers. So, after the Spanish war was finished, you were walking on the streets and you would looking always over your shoulder because you don't know who you going to find and sometimes two brothers saw each other in the front, shooting a gun at each other. And that's the terrible thing about it was the country part of Spain was very poor. So most of the guys, like my father for instance, they were in a part of a Spain where the Franco was, but he didn't know what the hell the whole thing meant, you know, he just was there, and they gave him, they gave him a gun and a shotgun and okay, you have to shoot over there. And that was it and you had to do it, if not they kill you. After that while everybody enjoys peace. But Piloña have to be rebuilt and that's why my father came, and my mother came to Barcelona because they are from, from a very poor part of Spain in those days. The south of Spain was completely desolated so these people immigrate to the big city and there, well they work, they make their own colonies, they don't spoke the language because you know about the Catalans, they speak Catalan. and they look at those foreigners like, uh, you know of second-class citizens, but they didn't know, these foreigners we're going to take over. Why? Because the Catalans they are very, I would say stingy in those days. I know it sounds cruel, but there were very many suffer. You know, where people are very strict, and they had only as many children as they can, you know, procreate and they can give education. So that was only one or two. And then those families from the south, they came, and they populate Barcelona and Tarragona and Lleida and Girona, the whole Catalonian thing was populated by these second-class citizens that suddenly they became the spirit and the engine of the part of the country, and I was born into this part. I was born the only son and I will say, when it was a kid, I was a disaster as a kid. But yeah, I, I, my God, I didn't know my family why they don't kill me because I put all the miseries they can suffer through. It was because I got sick, I got all the sickness in the world. I was about to die twice and that was tough for a young couple, you know, especially when you don't have money, you don't have a work. They took me to school and when I was six and I went to school, I learned how to read in two days and everybody looked at me and say, oh my God, in those days, you know, that kind of things didn't happen. And in after the week I could memorize books than I don't know what the hell I was reading, but I memorized the words, you know, 50 pages and I can tell you, you know, everything. One day in my house I just passed out. Yeah. My father, my mother, they thought it was one of my attacks when I was a kid and when I woke up, I have forgot everything. I was like someone else and this is, it's so hard to understand for anybody and they send me to school again and I was the last of the class. You know? I was the stupid kid. I mean I was not impressive on anything, but music. Music was something else. So, in Barcelona they put you to work when you were 14, 14 years old, they give you some long pants, you can smoke, and they took you to have a, you know, a non sancta lady if you wanted to, which I always refused, I was a romantic. Well they put me to work in a factory where we made steam machines and engines for the cruise liners and all these things. I was a lathe operator, but the lathe, the lathe machine in those days was very simple. You put your fingers and you lose them that was it. So, all the old people in front of the machines, across the room. The old guys, they had only three or four fingers on each hand and I already was beginning to play the guitar, so I decided to quit, so I decided to move out and then something beautiful came to me. I was learning Flamenco and I used to go to a small tavern in Barcelona with all the Flamenco people because Flamenco is very much like a religion. It's not folkloric music from Spain because the Flamenco is something that comes from the poor people from the struggling. It's like jazz, like blues, you know, you cannot call the blues folkloric music. It's not, folkloric, square dance and all these things, but this is something that comes from the soul. So, all these people from the south. I'm talking about poor people, workers. We used to get together in a place similar to this, smaller, and there was a little stage and it was someone who played a guitar and they asked me to play the guitar and that's how I learned Flamenco. Not from the professionals, but there was a guy who played better than I did and there was a young girl to dance and you know you were into your thing and everybody was quiet and it's suddenly when you are in the flamenco atmosphere, this is a moment of exhilaration that you feel like saying Ole. Ole is like, it's, it's an expression that comes out of the soul and we call it the angel. You have angel and depends how you, how you move your voice, you know, is it has a lot to do when everybody gets into the same wave and just singing and dancing with this because you know the rhythm, you know what's going on between the singer, the dancer and the guitarist. It's only three people in the FLAMENCO. That's the basic. And when that happens, you know you, ahhh, you know, it's like it's like a blow of power all over the place and to experience that was something that we wanted to do at least once a week. And I was doing that and suddenly two gentlemen appear. They looked like Martians to us because they were well dressed. You know, with the goatee and very refined and they were watching the whole thing and I was playing my guitar. My mother and father was there and suddenly when I finished, I sit at my table, these, one of the gentlemen come and said very politely can, can we talk to you. And I was 14 years old and he was a very famous flamenco dancer and his friend, and they came because they wanted to take me with them to France to do a tour with the Jeunesses Musicales Francais. Jeunesses Musicales Francais was a, what's like an entity of the government that gave to every high school they gave concerts of very important people. I mean, there was the great, the orchestras that used to go to every little town where there was a high school for girls, it was funny, For girls. And well, uh, my father and I said, well, okay, but it to explain me, he's 14 years old and he said this, "It's going to be perfect for us because he plays like a grownup. But he's a young man and the girls are going to love it". You know there's going to be, "oh my god!"

Heather Newman: Winning.

Juan Carlos: So, I was, I was, you know, when, when they give you that opportunity and you've been like locked into a dark place. Suddenly France for me was like another planet. So, I, I, I remember every detail about, you know, when I got the, when we changed from the train from Spain, you know, the trains in Spain, the, the rails were stumps, so, every clack-clack, clack-clack, clack-clack, every time. The trains in France, the rails were weld. So, there was no clack-clack. So, I was at the beginning, you know what is going to sound, what is going to sound. And from there you know, is suddenly you are from the poorest part of the country and you have, you go to France and you first, I have never been in a restaurant before. The first dinner that you're going to have is with the Minister of Culture at the Palace of Versailles in the Mirror Room.

Heather Newman: Really? I've been there. Wow!

Juan Carlos: You know what I'm talking about? It was the most embarrassing moment of my life because they put in front of me like six spoons on one side, three, six glasses and four plates on top of each other and suddenly the guy appeared with a whole salmon in a tray and he asked me to serve myself. I said you must be Kidding, you know? I was in panic and everybody was, so you know, debonair and all that. And I was sweating my ass off. Sorry. Thank God there was the lady on the, two dancers, one of them was the master of castanets playing, which was a, she, unfortunately she passed away a few months ago, but she was my mentor on the tour. Yeah. And she told me, "Well, you have to do it like this", and suddenly I felt, you know, myself, like easy, easy. And then something happened to me. Then I discovered that I have a certain facility to learn languages. At three or four weeks I was speaking French because Catalan, I speak Catalan. Catalan is a Latin language that has Italian and French and it comes very easy for us, but I felt myself speaking French and liking the whole thing. And then you go to the first show, the first show was at Lycée Privé, Paris, and all the girls from all girls schools in Paris came to see the show to start the tour. We're going to do a tour of three months all over France and North Africa. In those days, North Africa was a protectorate of France. Well, I didn't expect that. I was dressed, you know, I was kind of good-looking kid, you know? Very thin with a real flamenco, you know? And suddenly I walk on the stage, because we'd done a rehearsal, but there was nobody there. Suddenly, I hear that scream.

Heather Newman: It's like the Beatles.

Juan Carlos: Like the Beatles. I didn't know what to do. I think I got stopped in the middle of the stage and the French guy who was doing, the guy who was presenting us, we call it a conferencier. He is used to do like a conference. He says, "Go on. Go on. Go on". So, I went there, and I sat, and they don't stop screaming. What the hell am I going to do?

Heather Newman: Keep playing.

Juan Carlos: What happened to me? So finally, I got into it. Then you know, one of my very violent, it was even worse! Well, finally it seems like the guy came in and say, Please, ladies I know he is a young man, is very passionate and, you know, the whole thing. Please listen. He's a great guitarist too. So finally, they keep quiet. All right. I did my solo, because it was a solo, you know? Then I went inside and when I went inside the master of ceremonies came to pick me up again and said, you both, you have to take another bow. You know it was incredible because the show was over, and they wanted me to go out and take a bow. So, this was my first experience in Paris, 14 years old. And then to get into the dressing room with like 2000 girls around you. I didn't know, I didn't know how. I think I almost died or crash. It was terrible. Then, like this, I went to every little town, every place. I remember the first time I got drunk it was in the caves of Dom Pérignon. That was classy.

Heather Newman: Fantastic, yeah. Are you kidding?

Juan Carlos: Then went to the, uh, to the Mont Saint Michel where the medieval was made. And you know, for a kid who's never been out of Spain with a, with a heart this empty, you know, and you visit every place. What I used to do, we arrived on the bus and I stopped, I left everything in a hotel and start walking the streets. In the fifties, I'm talking about 1955 in France. The war was also happened out there. We went to Normandy coast and they're still the tanks on the sand, the cannons and everything was there. And we know the real people because you know, they came the, the, the major of every little town. They gave us dinner and we taste the best dishes of every very pot. So, I came back after the tour to Barcelona and my father didn't recognize me because I have cut my hair in a different way. And I was wearing the typical blouse noire, you know, Parisienne, guy with the, with a leather jacket we used to stole from the American pilots that was down there. You know, very straight pants and all that. And he said, son, you sure you're not gay? For him, that was the picture of the gay person, you know, because I looked so strange, so different and then, I remember then I had to go back to the factory. My friends at the factory, they couldn't believe what I told them. So, I stopped telling anybody what I have done. But this gave me the first taste of, of what I was going to do. Then when I first, we did the second show, a second time, I was already a professional and then it's when I stayed. And uh, do you remember an actress called Brigitte Bardot?

Heather Newman: Of course.

Juan Carlos: Okay. Brigitte Bardot was then beginning. She was a beautiful girl. She was beginning. And so, she had to be, in one of the movies, I think was And God Created the Woman, Et Dieu... créa la femme. There was a scene that she has to do some flamenco dancing and somehow, I don't know how I get there. But according with a friend of a friend or a friend, okay, I know this kid who plays the guitar is here, is going to be at the Olympia. Oaky, they took me there and here I was playing the guitar for Brigite Bardot. And the entourage for Brigitte Bardot Was Pablo Picasso, Françoise Sagan, all these famous stars.

Heather Newman: Oh my gosh!

Juan Carlos: I was there with these people and she, she liked me so much because we were the same age. The rest of the people were old guys, so we had a great communication. We had a lot of fun and we went to every party. She dragged me because she wanted to do the funny shit. That's terrible. It was awful. But she. Everybody applaud her, and she was so beautiful, and we know we have such a great time. I met because, so I met all these famous people and it was like living in a dream and suddenly we got this thing at the Olympia theater for the Jeunesse Musicale. They call me and say, why don't you stay a few more months? And we have, we're going to do a show for, for the teenagers. They don't have to be ah school, but young people that one and all for free at the Olympia Theater and there was show which was the Russian Army Ensemble, the chorus. These guys, if you see something, maybe you can see them in YouTube, these guys were like, like a hundred guys and Russians, soldiers. Young men singing and dancing with this huge corviers in the air. I mean there was I. I was amazed by that. Then this gentleman that was very popular, which was Maurice Chevalier which was the conferencier. And sometimes Édith Piaf used to come to see, to see him. I talked to it Édith Piaf. And I said, "Jesus Christ, am I, when am I going to wake up of this thing?" We were doing the show and suddenly we got a telegram from New York. That was, when I say, on the show that we were going to do the thing. It was beautiful because when we got to the Plaza Hotel, I already been in a few hotels, but you always, you know, artists were number one for the first thing. But when I went to the Plaza it really was really overwhelming, you know, they give me a beautiful room and all that. When we' went to the rehearsal, there was a fashion show was beautiful. I mean the models, you know the top models from those days. I still remember the last costume that was the Spanish motif. She was like a bull fighter cape all around the girl in red with just with a black flower on her head. Was so beautiful. And then I realized that the people around me was the Kennedys, the Hiltons, the Shah of Persia with his wife Farah Diba, and it was Arthur Rubinstein, Salvador Dali. All these people were there. You want me to tell you a funny thing about it?

Heather Newman: Oh, yeah. Yes, of course.

Juan Carlos: I was staying in a small room in the corridor of the Plaza, in the suite on the left was Salvador Dali and the suite on the right was Arthur Rubinstein. We were doing a show. We were doing a rehearsal and I was playing guitar in the, in the room with the door open because there was a lady, a cleaning lady, a young, beautiful Puerto Rican girl and I was trying to talk to her, so I said, well, maybe if I play the guitar, you know, she will come in and we'll talk about. I really fell in love with that girl. She was so beautiful and suddenly instead of the girl a gentleman appeared and was Arthur Rubinstein. He was looking at me playing the guitar. "That's wonderful. Wow! This quite the scene? Isn't it?" He was kind of a Jewish, German accent. And he said "Maestro". I couldn't believe it. "Go on, go on, go on and play", play the. And suddenly I was playing, and this guy was sitting in the other bed in front of me watching me but listen to this. He said, "You know, I love Spanish music. Come to my home. I'm going to play something for you". I was sitting like this for one hour and a half listening to the best interpretation of the Spanish classics like Tourina (sp), like Fieja (sp). All these great great composers with the classics. And I say, "Maestro, you play this music like you were in Spain", and he said, "Because I become Spanish when I play this music" And this type of communication with such a genius, people you know, sometimes I think well, I was there or is it a dream and it's so beautiful memories and two days later I heard some people screaming on the corridor and it was Maestro Arthur Rubinstein, having an argument with Salvador Dali. Salvador Dali, with his oh, you know, with his night dress and the Maestro only like this in a t shirt, "I can sleep like this!" Salvador Dali was looking at him. Finally, the guy left and so I ask him, you know, when I saw him when I was in the elevator, "Maestro you okay?", "You know what this guy is doing?" I know, Salvador Dali had some little rocks that we have in a Spain. We're used by the knights of St John. The rocks are covered with phosphorous, so when you throw them in the floor, they explode. Bap, bap, bap, bap! Now the smell of the phosphorus is very high. This guy used to, he used to get the rocks, you know, he, he, he did that on the corner where there's no rug, you know, because he has to be on the, on the tile. So, he used to get the rock, smell it, and go inside and start painting. It was so noisy. I never was there because I was out all the time. I went to sleep three or 4:00 in the morning, but this was one of the arguments they had. And then we went to the, to the Ed Sullivan Show and Salvador Dali was there and he had a big canvas, huge canvas. And then he had some strange crayons, you know, he start painting with crayons and going kind of crazy but beautiful. And Mr. Sullivan asked him "Maestro, how much is this worth it?" He said, nothing. What do you mean nothing? Wait, you got crayons for the signature, now it's worth $800,000.

Heather Newman: I love, his paint. Your story, I mean, the dream that you keep talking about, I think, you know, a lot of the time, I get to be here with you in the first colonial bank in San Juan. So, I feel a dream too, you know, it's the things that happen. You're like, so great.

Juan Carlos: Of course, this life, this life of entertainer. It takes you to places you never thought you will have ever there, and you meet people you never thought you can meet, and you get into situations that you can be killed, and you don't know.

Heather Newman: Really. I know.

Juan Carlos: You get out of it, but you don't know how you really worry how much danger it was. We traveled a lot and uh, then we went back to, I went back to Spain and then I started working seriously on the guitar and then I got called to go to Las Vegas and I was a, it was a brief thing. But, uh, I remember that it seems like Dean Martin saw me on the Ed Sullivan show when I did my Zorba thing, you know?

Heather Newman: So, on the Ed Sullivan show you played Zorba?

Juan Carlos: Yeah, the Ed Sullivan I played Zorba because he asked me, you know, I was going to play some of my Flamenco Malagueña and all those things, but, but Mr. this, Ed Sullivan he, he, he, he was a strange guy. He said to me, "I want you to play something you have never played before", and likely he was testing me. And I said, "Well, something like?", "Have you ever seen a movie called Zorba the Greek?" And I say, no, it's not, it was not even shown in Europe yet because it came out years later. But the theme was very famous and somehow, uh, I said, okay, well they put me into a screening room and into they showed me the movie a few times to hear the music because they didn't have the music out yet. So. But I tried to, I saw the movie like seven times. And I put it together and then I realized that I cannot play it with the guitar tune the regular way. So, I tried to fake something to see if I can get it easier for me to do. And finally, I found my own tuning and I found it by accident. I was playing a flamenco guitar with wooden pegs. It's no mechanical, wooden, was straight. So, when you have a Flamenco guitar and you touch something, whether with a hat it, the whole thing goes back. So, I was practicing and practicing and suddenly I did like this and I touched the edge of the table with the headboard and suddenly, twang, two strings got off. I say, oh my God, let me try it, rang, rang, rang. And that was it. I discovered it by accident. That's the truth, just between you and me. So, my big success of Zorba the Greek, I discovered by accident and with a guitar like this, without touching it, I went to the show. I practice and practice and practice until when I had it done, I say okay. And I did it and it was very, very successful. You know, it was fun because how important is to be the right place, you know, just when I get out of the, of the, of the studio theater, day after New York recognize me anywhere, because the Ed Sullivan show was. Everybody was watching it. "Hey Zorba!", "Hey Zorba!", I was being, "No, I'm Spanish." "Oh, that was beautiful Zorba. How can you make it sound so like", and this is something that for an artist, it's recognition and I've noticed that recognition is the most important thing for everybody, not just for an artist. We got it for free, but I think that recognition is something that is need for everybody because to be anonymous it's really very sad thing and people sometimes they, they're so lonely because they are not recognized, and this is a very sad thing, but this another dangerous too. If you want to be a celebrity 24 hours a day, that's terrible, nobody wants to be next to you. So, my career at the guitar, it's been taking from the real Flamenco thing which gave me the technique. The way I move my hands, you know, and uh, the violence than I have because Flamenco, sometimes you get violent, you get into it. It's like playing a drum, you know, sometimes you get into the rhythm and, and you really do it hot. And then I learned how to play music from other countries in South America of course, and I was visiting, I don't read music, I've never read music because with Flamenco, you know, you play by ear and that's it. You have to have a good ear. I fell in love with all these melodies and I start at it with my technique. I play all those melodies with a technique I knew and suddenly I found myself playing music from Chile, Peru, Argentina, Bolivia, all those things. And it sounds different, but it sounds like the real thing, but it's probably a little more brilliant because of the way I, the way I use my right hand. So, it gave me that, that special touch. And then I had the good luck to meet a, a woman, uh, here in Puerto Rico. She came from Argentina with a beautiful show about Spain. You know the immigrants in Argentina, 80 percent are Spanish from the regions. so, she came here with the music from the whole country of Spain, not just flamenco. She dance. She was a specialized with music from the north, from the center and Flamenco of course. When she got here, she started learning Cuban dancing, Brazilian dancing, Puerto Rican and all that. So suddenly of course we fell in love. We finally get together and that's when we decided to put together a show and we were adding more girls, but how good it was to use beautiful Latino girls. We didn't want professional dancers. The show, the talent was based on me because I learned how to handle a show from being Dean Martin, from, uh, from these guys like the, like a Sammy Davis, like Paul Anka, watching those, being with those guys. I used to open the show for them many times. Even here in Puerto Rico when Puerto Rico was like Las Vegas in the seventies and eighties. So, handling your audience, learning the language. I was lucky I spoke French and Italian and so learning English, it took me a while, but I got familiar with it and the way these guys used to handle the audience between songs or how to talk to them. That's, that's the gimmick of being an entertainer. So, without noticing it, I was becoming a showman and I started telling jokes and telling stories and suddenly the girls appear with a beautiful dance and when you see the girls everybody was mesmerized because it was like Miss. Universe thing. So. But the good thing about it, that my show was put together by a woman. So, it was never grotesque, or it was erotic or sexy. The costumes we use were exactly the costumes that Brazilians used in their dances. The Cubans used in the dancer, the Dominicans, the Puerto Ricans. So, we did everything with style. That's why we never had problems like being censored for, to go anyway because the girls were beautiful, but you know, there were no g-strings, there were no sexy movement. Nothing. Was Real, real dances from the countries and the Flamenco. You see I have a great flamenco dancer here. She's good. But of course, now, as I said to you, I'm retired, but I can stay home. Well, this is part of my, this is part of my life and something I like to mention my first contract with America. America is the dream, was the dream of many people. And when I first flew over New York, I thought I was in a movie, you know, I was, you know, we saw the movies and I said, okay, I'm here, you know, this is it. We did a tour all over United States. We, we played in universities, was a cultural tour 1960. We were doing every university. We did like 30 universities in United States and we did it by bus traveling. We've traveled the roads of America and in the sixties, I went to the diners, you know, the real ones. And I went to the western countries. Las Vegas was just one street, you know, that was it. We just pass through. We saw all the southern. We went to Kentucky, we went so many places and this for, you know, for 20-year-old man it's something, you know, you can’t believe it. So I absorbed so much and I became so, so fond of the American people because I saw for the first time the people who didn't cheat, you know, people who went, who accomplish things and they pay the taxes and they went to the school and everything was working and was and that was beautiful because the Catalans we were like this. We were responsible, we were always on time. This is something that I learned and South America was a disaster. It was terrible. I don't know how the hell these countries work because nobody's on time. But I had such admiration for that, that I decide, well this is, this is what I'm going to do. That's why when I got my first American passport I wanted to go to Vietnam. And I did go. We made a little group in Puerto Rico and we went to Vietnam with the USO and that was my way to say thanks to, you know, to so many, so many things that you can accomplish in a country like America. I never felt like an immigrant because I, I got my residence for free. It was given to me by a president.

Heather Newman: What, what president? I know you've played at the White House too. Who did you play for?

Juan Carlos: Yes. Uh, there was Spiro Agnew was the vice president that was a which, sorry, but I don't know

Heather Newman: Kennedy? Nixon?

Juan Carlos: But you know how I did it? Pablo Casals, the great cello player is he lived here in Puerto Rico with my paisano and we met. I was in a deportation process, so I was going to be deported and uh, I'm still trying to think of the name of the President. Well, you’ll find out. And uh, he, I met him in a recording studio. We start talking Catalan and I said, "Maestro, I'm sorry. I'm going to Miss you a lot because I have to go". "What? What do mean? Why are you Going?" "No, I'm being deported", and he said "what? Why? You do something wrong?", I say, "No just I have no visa. I have nothing else, you know, I have no visa. I have no job here". he said, "What, but you are Flamenco Guitarist?". I said, "Yes". You're a person of, you know in America they have a rule or a law that if you ever person of certain abilities you're wanted to be in, in, in, in the country. extraordinary abilities, something like that it's called, and I said, "Do you think I can apply? He said, "Of course, of course. This is something very unusual. We don't have real flamenco guitarist born in America." So, he wrote to the president and two weeks later I got called by the immigration official and they gave me the green card.

Heather Newman: Wow, that's amazing.

Juan Carlos: Oh my God. What was the president that came after Kennedy?

Heather Newman: There was Johnson and Ford and Carter.

Juan Carlos: No, Ford, Ford. Gerald Ford. This was my big thing about the visa, when I went to pick up my visa, it was given to me by some judges that come every, every week they came from the United States and they were dining in a restaurant and I was performing and when they saw me coming into the jury, you know because you have to do the. And they say, "Did you bring your guitar?", I said, oh my God. I just said, why don't you tell us? I had a letter from Washington? Okay, who is your friend up there? It was so beautiful. These guys were so nice. They always ask me to play Malagueña. They admired what I did, but I never thought they worked, they never introduced themselves either. So, I didn't know who the hell they were, but when I walk into there and one of them said, "Oh my God, did you bring your guitar?" Oh, my goodness, it was beautiful. Things that happens, you know, things that you get when you, when you are an entertainer, an artist or something like this. There's so many stories. But maybe we'll have another program.

Heather Newman: Yeah, we'll have to talk again. And now you're retired. Though I saw you perform so beautifully last night. Where people can find you. Um, so the name of this place?

Juan Carlos: Oh, this is Triana Tapas. Tiana is a little suburb of Seville. It's on the other side of the river where most of the Gypsies were. The Flamenco was first, and the Gypsies came in later, but they adapted so well that they related with the Flamenco very much. But uh, Triana Tapas, tapas are the little, you know, when you order you eat before,

Heather Newman: Little plates.

Juan Carlos: Yeah, Uh, before the going to the serious eating, you know, so you have a little glass of wine with a little pot of olives and shrimps and all this. It Is a great variety of hors d'oeuvres.

Heather Newman: The food is delicious.

Juan Carlos: the food is really good here. And these people they, the good thing about Triana is that is not made by Spaniards. I mean they're two Puerto Ricans, his wife, the wife of a Harold is the lady you saw with the castanets now and you see in the lobby, you know, these people learning how to play.

Heather Newman: They do a class here too?

Juan Carlos: Yea, she is a teacher, but she sings Flamenco, and she plays flamenco guitar, she dances. And he is in Spanish, we call it manitas, we call him hands because he's the one who repair all this. Is an engineer, electric electrical engineer. He graduates and how to know so many things. He can fix your computer, your phone, and he can break a wall and he can fix a toilet. This guy is amazing!

Heather Newman: A man of all trades.

Juan Carlos: Yes, and he's very smart. He has a great sense of humor. He likes dancing a lot and they met in an Arthur Murray school here.

Heather Newman: Oh, an Arthur Murray dance school.

Juan Carlos: Yeah, because he was teacher in Arthur Murray. And she wanted to learn how to dance so that was love at first sight. And he's been doing many different businesses but somehow when I saw this place that it used to be a Spanish restaurant that just didn't work, but he took it and then he put all this together and he fix it and they work a lot. And we create, and of course he needed someone who knew about show business and I happened to be here. I was staying in Venezuela until 1995. I was doing well down there because Venezuela used to be the richest country in South America. I was performing at the Hilton and suddenly, you know, everything went out. And I had to leave Venezuela and I was fortunate because the El Conquistador Hotel, which is a beautiful resort, was to be reopened for the second time and they asked me to come with a whole show to open it. I Was performing five, five years with them and then I decide to, a friend of mine the business of the cruise liners. Oh, the cruise liners used to be a great business here because in the old days, about 20 years ago the ships were smaller, so the cost of the tickets was higher, which brings you another kind of audience. So, the people can come, can pay to see a, tour with the show. So, we used to rent the whole auditorium in a hotel. We had like 500 people per show. That went on for about five years, was good business. Now unfortunately the ships are much bigger, which gives facility to people of, you know, a middle class to be. Which I think is great. You know, it's beautiful. But in our business, you know, they try to keep the same prices on the ship to pay for our show and it's not working because, you know, these people come with a small budget and they'd rather walk, you know, and, and spend that money on eating or buying things, which is very understandable.

Heather Newman: Yeah.

Juan Carlos: Well, well now, now we have in groups of 100, 50, 60. That's okay, and it's good to entertain the people for the cruise liners because most of them, they're people of certain age and you know, they feel very identified with me so we had a lot, a lot, a lot of good times with them. Now, well, I have a beautiful house in front of the beach. I have a beautiful wife and my dancers, and I have three daughters and four grandchildren.

Heather Newman: Wow!

Juan Carlos: We are a whole family. And um, it's not, for me it's not sad to retire because I've done so many things. I performed so much. Then I say, I say my, my son, he loves me, "There's nothing you would like to do?" I say "No, I've done everything I wanted to do, man. Leave me alone."

Heather Newman: I've done it all.

Juan Carlos: I've done it. I'm living the future. Okay.

Heather Newman: Right, right. That's amazing. And, you know, you do this here because you love it.

Juan Carlos: Oh, this is fun for me.

Heather Newman: This is fun. This is not necessarily, not that if you love what you do, it's not work anyway. Right, but you're not touring and all of that.

Juan Carlos: Sometimes they call me to do a convention, which I enjoy very much. I go to do a convention in United States or something like that for two or three days and okay, I'll do it. But this is a, every night, you know there's new people coming and it keeps my mind working and of course now since I'm beginning to, you know, sometimes you forget things, but a friend of mine told me, you know Alzheimer's is not when you lost the key, it's when you find them and you don't know what the hell to do with them. That's the real thing. I say, okay, I'm safe, okay.

Heather Newman: As long as you know what to do with the guitar, you're still good.

Juan Carlos: I have something beautiful, I have my first guitar. I revived my first guitar that came with me to America from 1960 and she's still alive. I put it to work and every time, it's a flamenco guitar, and it's very special because Flamenco guitar so very light because they don't have any iron anyways. Everything is wood and is very thin and it's, it's a, it's so beautiful to, to, to play that instrument. Now sometimes you know what I have, I think it sounds stupid, but I have my, how do you say when you have in your computer a picture?

Heather Newman: You have a picture in a frame?

Juan Carlos: No, when you have a picture you like in your computer. It's like a screensaver. Screensaver is a picture of my house from 1952 when I was born and there's nobody in the street and this my house over there. I you have everything in snow. So, when I look at that and when I grab that guitar, I feel something.

Heather Newman: Yeah, of course.

Juan Carlos: I play guitar different than when I come here, and I played with the one in electrified and then I'm beginning, either or I'm going crazy, or this is something that is happening between the guitar, my youth and me. It's a, it's a strange feeling, but you know, improvisation is the main thing in Flamenco. So, I'm improvising and I'm coming out with things that I've never done before with that guitar. So, l just say, oh my God, you better watch out. Thank god I'm not smoking anything or drinking anything. I'm still sober and I say, "Well, maybe it's something going on."

Heather Newman: It's the connection, right?

Juan Carlos: I don't know. It's funny because when I relax in the house, you know, and I just, I never felt it many years ago to go and play the guitar in the house because I've been playing a lot. But this guitar happens to me. This guitar was hidden in a, you know, one of these things that you hire to put furniture inside. A storage room and I forgot about it and about six months ago when I found it, I felt like a thing in my heart and I say, "Gosh, thank god it's here", because you know, I had so many guitars and so many things and then I put it back. I took it with me, varnish, put some new strings and now we're friends again.

Heather Newman: That's amazing. sometimes, it's sometimes the first, you know, those, those things that are your first. The moment.

Juan Carlos: Yeah, you know, but what this guitar has is that it's a natural sound. It's a kind of guitar that you cannot press against your body because you kill the vibration.

Heather Newman: Oh, okay.

Juan Carlos: So, you have to separate a little bit because it's so thin, the word is Cypress and screws, it's so thin the wood that everything vibrates. And it has a real flamenco sound. It was built in 1916. Yeah, it was my first guitar, professional guitar.

Heather Newman: Thank you so much for talking with me and I still am, I can't believe this wonderful room down here.

Juan Carlos: Yeah, this is very unusual because this is the shelter of a bank that was the first bank America had outside United States.

Heather Newman: and we're in the vault

Juan Carlos: Yeah, we're in the vault. And this vault is, I think the previous owners of this place, the Spanish restaurant, they told me that they brought a German technician to open the safe because it was locked. The German guy spend here about a month drinking and, he never got the thing open. They call a bunch of kids from the other side of the bay, four Puerto Ricans. They came here with two screwdrivers and they open it up in about two days, so that's what I call Puerto Rican talent.

Heather Newman: Well, thank you so much Juan Carlos.

Juan Carlos: Than you.

Heather Newman: What a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your story with me.

Juan Carlos: It's pleasure, my pleasure. Because you don't have many, I'm writing a book, but they're going to give me more money not to publish it.

Heather Newman: Is there some good stories in there?

Juan Carlos: Oh my God yes. We'll do another article. I will wait for the person to die so I can talk about that.

Heather Newman: Fair enough. Fair enough. Yes, we don't gossip, yes.

Juan Carlos: No. I think what you do is something beautiful, and I feel myself very, very lucky because you don't get to know most of the artists, you know, with all this, you see them only on stage. Behind each person there is a story, you know, and people like us who have been traveling so much. You've been doing so many things and meeting so many people. We have lots of stories, lots of situations and it's good to give it away some time.

Heather Newman: Yeah, well thank you, gracias.

Juan Carlos: Thank you, muchas gracias.

Heather Newman: That was the lovely Juan Carlos in San Juan and this was Mavens Do It Better. Thanks everybody.

EPISODE 12: MUSIC MAVEN - LÍRICA LEÓN

Heather Newman: Hello everyone, coming at you for the Mavens Do It Better podcast from Beautiful San Juan, Puerto Rico, and I'm sitting here with the lovely, great woman who I met the other day at this really cool place and so I'm going to let her introduce herself and tell us where we are.

Graciela: Of course. Of course. Hi everybody. My name is Graciela and I go by the artist's name of Lírica León and I am from Puerto Rico and I am a lyricist more, so I'd love to do a little bit of rap, a lot of instruments, a lot of instrumentation, acoustic things. I love Playing Electric Guitar and I just love music in general, so yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity for sure.

Heather Newman: You bet! I know when I walked in this, it's the Poet's Corner, yes?

Graciela: Passage. Poet's Passage.

Heather Newman: Passage, Poet's Passage. Yes, because I guess it's not really a corner yeah? It's more of a passage isn't it?

Graciela: It's more of a hallway, it's a hallway concept.

Heather Newman: How long has this been here?

Graciela: We've been open for about 11 years now. Probably going on 12 soon. Of course, I don't exactly remember when the anniversary is, but we are owned by Ms. Lady Lee Andrews. She's a local, San Juan area poet born and raised right here, and she saw an empty, like a pocket in the local San Juan scene when it comes to art and poetry. She, it took her a lot of, a lot of hustling and a lot of connections and just everything to get this place open. But she did, and it was amazing, and we've been here 11 years as I said, and it's poetry first for us here because definitely sometimes the poet is seen as the least important aspect of an art piece, but here they're highlighted, so definitely.

Heather Newman: Absolutely. And to sit in here is just, you can't even take it all in, you know, there's poetry all over the walls and beautiful art and we're sitting in a space that's kind of like a performance stage space.

Graciela: Yes, it's definitely like a performance stage. We've shifted the stage and run a couple of times to make it appeal to the crowd more, so definitely. But I love the fact that it's a safe space no matter what kind of art you do, anyone from whatever part of the world you belong to, you come in here and you do your thing and it's very much appreciated.

Heather Newman: I mean, I wandered in yesterday and you were singing and playing. You were playing the Congo. Yeah?

Graciela: I forget the name of that instrument. It's not a Conga, I really forget, but I know a native African drum. I have to know the name, but it's definitely used in the traditional Bomba music. We play here Bomba y Plena, which is a, comes from our African heritage as Puerto Ricans. So definitely I love playing it. I played very basically, but because I love fiddling around with it. But yeah, it's pretty cool. Did you enjoy playing the maracas?

Heather Newman: Yes. I was handed a Maraca and uh, was rocking out to her singing. It was great.

Graciela: Excellent. And I was like, "Hey, we're having fun".

Heather Newman: I did alright.

Graciela: It's pretty good. Thank you so much. Yes.

Heather Newman: Oh, you're welcome. That was awesome. Yeah. So, growing up here, I mean, you're probably exposed to music since, you know, coming out of the womb.

Graciela: I'm not going to, there's a story behind actually. My mother told me that I was born, um, sadly with the umbilical cord wrapped around my neck, so I was born blue as they say because I couldn't breathe. Um, my mom had to go into cesárea, how do you call that?

Heather Newman: Oh, a C-section.

Graciela: A C-section yes. Um, and she, I had to come out that way, you know, so. But as my mom tells me that as the doctor was bringing me to her after cleaning me up or whatever, he said here comes la cantante and he said, here comes, the singer and put me in my mother's arms. And I was like, that is such an interesting thing that happened. But, you know, I pay it no mind. But it was pretty much since day one. My parents have such interesting taste in music more so my Dad. Reggae music, rock and roll, old school, hip hop, a lot of metal music, um, things that old school, what do you call Elvis Presley? And his old school bands, the doo-wop, you know, all play. A lot of Salsa on music. My mom loves Salsa everything in Spanish, Bachata, merengue, but she's a Salsa woman. She will play salsa till the end of time.

Heather Newman: That's great. So, I got to do that the other night with a friend here.

Graciela: Was it Latin roots over there?

Heather Newman: No, it's fortu. Um, it's the one that has four bars in? It was like Fortuna, is that right.? I can't remember the name of it. I should know. I was like, I don't know, but yeah, he busted out some salsa moves on me that were pretty great. It was super fun.

Graciela: It's a workout honey. That's a workout dancing the salsa. Oh my God. I put so I don't know how to dance it well, but when somebody takes you and they know what they're doing, you just follow them. It's amazing.

Heather Newman: When that happens, you're kind of like...

Graciela: Taken, usually, for this ride. Whatever is happening, it's happening.

Heather Newman: Super fun. And then last night I went to see, um, we walked into another restaurant and it was this man, Juan Carlos who was born in Barcelona, but he was raised here, and he plays Flamenco Guitar.

Graciela: Yes. I love Flamenco.

Heather Newman: Do you know him? Have you met him?

Graciela: No, I don't know.

Heather Newman: You need to go meet this man, he is amazing. I'm going to go meet him and talk to him in a little while.

Graciela: Oh, my goodness. Okay.

Heather Newman: He played at the age of 16 on the Ed Sullivan show.

Graciela: Really?

Heather Newman: Yeah, Salvador Dali was on that day and he's played with everyone. You need to meet this guy. Yeah.

Graciela: There's so many. Jesus. Oh, my goodness gracious. Do you know what I'm saying? This is the magic, but I always say this, the magic of San Juan is you turn a corner, you find a gem, you turn a corner here, you find a gem. That's why anybody who wants to come here and want to go through someone, explore, explore because you never know what you are going to find.

Heather Newman: I walked all day yesterday and you know, just I was just blown away. I kept walking into places and talking to people and it was just so fun.

Graciela: There's always a conversation.

Heather Newman: Yeah, and I think, you know, with everything that happened, you know, with the hurricane, you know, it's like coming back. But I think, you know, Puerto Rico is always had some infrastructure issues that are hopefully being more dealt with now because of that. I don't know. Do you feel like, what do you feel about the city? Not to, you know, I don't want to Dig into anything.

Graciela: Oh, it's okay. We can totally dig or whatever. No problem. I'm comfortable.

Heather Newman: I feel like, you know, it's like tourism. We need people to come to Puerto Rico to come back to Puerto Rico because it's beautiful and there's so many things to do and see here and it's just, you all, the people, you're just so amazing.

Graciela: Thank you. Thank you so Much. No, no, no. We definitely do. We, we, especially places with metropolitan heavy areas, you know, San Juan here, and then Guaynabo, Fajardo, Cayey, etc., etc. These places do need tourism because they thrive off of it. It's the only way. Sometimes it's the only way because what Puerto Rico is essentially, essentially is, is a place for everybody. Anyone can come here. My, our problem is sort of the way we benefit, the way the benefits kind of give more cons to us, the people that live here, you know. So, it is like if we want to build a business, our own business and if we want to maintain that business as a local business, it's 11 times harder for us than an outside or foreign business coming in. So those are definitely the points where the benefits we would need to fix and have it all be equal towards us or, or all be seeing the same way, so we can all thrive. We all want everybody to thrive. So definitely.

Heather Newman: Absolutely. Well and it's also a choice of whether you go to a local coffee shop or you go to Starbucks because you know it.

Graciela: Exactly, and there's nothing wrong with Starbucks.

Heather Newman: There's nothing wrong with Starbucks. It's a great business and it's lovely that they're here. But but it is something to where you're like, okay, well there's local businesses that are thriving that are gonna that are here and want to be here, have been here forever. Supporting them.

Graciela: Thank you. Yeah, no, we thank those people, because a lot of people, most of the average tourist today is very conscious, you know? Sometimes you have these unconscious people and it's like, well let them learn by themselves, you know? What can you do?

Heather Newman: There's unconscious people everywhere especially right now.

Graciela: You know, like let them learn. But for example, my thing would be like the whole coffee shop thing and like try to, a lot of tourists come out and come here and I hear them talking and they're just like, "Oh look, there's a Marshall's!" And "Let's go to the Marshall's". And I'm like, "What? You going to go to a Marshall's in the middle of Old San Juan?", you have that back home! Or they're just like coming up to me, "Where's the nearest McDonald’s?" And I'm like, you have actual beautiful food around you. Cheap, you could get an empanada for like $2 and that is delicious. So, it's like support your local things, you know, be challenged, don't, don't pay attention to McDonald’s till you go back home. You're going to find it when you go home. You know the only argument I would have.

Heather Newman: Yeah. Fair enough. I agree with you completely. I love your musical note by the way.

Graciela: Thank you so much. I got this first year, freshman year of college for sure. It's been with me around my neck for about four years and I don't know, I feel like I saw it spoke to me.

Heather Newman: It's beautiful.

Graciela: It's a little, for those who are hearing, it's a little stainless-steel clave de sol how do you say treble clef?

Heather Newman: Treble clef.

Graciela: A treble clef in stainless steel and then a couple of the crystals on it.

Heather Newman: Sparkly. I liked the sparkles.

Graciela: Yes, you've got to be spark-ley!

Heather Newman: What did you study in school?

Graciela: I am studying

Heather Newman: because you're still?

Graciela: Yes, yes. I'm in my third year, about hopefully two years left to till I graduate. I'm studying communications at the moment, but I'm actually somebody who has always been like, I love university, but I feel like I could do more without it. I just, I. I recognized that the strength of a bachelor’s program, going out there into the real world trying to support myself is evident, so it's difficult trying to balance. Sometimes I step off the balance and right now I feel like I am stepping off the balance a little bit, but we're trying to come back to that. But communications, is the third thing I choose, I went in for marketing. Then I went to sociology and now I'm in communications and I'm just like, we're staying here because we want to graduate, and we want to finish, let's just go. Let's just be finished. Let's just go. You know?

Heather Newman: Yeah, I started as a communications major because they didn't have theater, the first college I started at in Illinois and then I transferred to University of Washington and became a theater major and now I work in technology.

Graciela: Excellent. Wow. You never know where life's going to take you.

Heather Newman: Yeah, you don't know. And all the theater production skills and all of that transferred into doing big shows for Microsoft.

Graciela: Excellent.

Heather Newman: So, I think with communications it's, I think those are great skills to have and some business skills, especially if you want to run your own stuff.

Graciela: Yes, definitely. I've got some plans for that one day.

Heather Newman: An aspiring business owner?

Graciela: I would love to. I would love to. I've always loved the idea of being my own label owner, you know, I would love to call it, my name is Graciela it means to be to have gratitude. So, I think I'd call it maybe Graceful Records or something. Those are, these are like five-year-old thoughts. Okay. Not so much, 12-year-old thoughts. But I would love to have my own record label one day and just help true talent rise somehow because it's, it's difficult to find a real helping hand without, without. Because people come up to you and they have a lot of pretext and they have like not pretext or like, you know, how do you say intentions.

Heather Newman: Yes, yes. They want something from you.

Graciela: Exactly. And it's like, it's like you're there to help, but as soon as you smell something fishy, you jump out. And it's sad. It makes me sad because I'm like, I'm somebody who goes out every day who wakes up, tries to hustle, try to get closer to her goals and her dreams. And these people hold these dreams in my, They're essentially gatekeepers. You Know Jessie Reyez? She's one of my favorite artists and they just, as soon as you don't do something they want you to do, they snatch that away from you and you have to be brought back two or three steps again. So, I'm definitely, I want to be somebody who's real, who's who, who's there to be like, you have a talent, let's, you know, let's carve it out. Let's make it better. Let's try to achieve what you have inside your head. Only if you're there to work. And let’s do it, let’s work. I want to be that for other artists or people in general.

Heather Newman: I see that for you.

Graciela: Thank you so much.

Heather Newman: You know when you put things out into the universe. You say them out loud and you tell other people? You know I'm going to be checking on you and like when's this label launching. You know what I mean?

Graciela: Uh, let's knock on wood in about 15 years from now, 15, 15 years.

Heather Newman: Let's call it five.

Graciela: Five. My Gosh. Oh my gosh. Well it's possible, but dang, 5 years. I see myself just barely getting my first album out in five years. But let's go.

Heather Newman: Well, there's nothing to it, but to do it right.

Graciela: That's true. As long as it's done.

Heather Newman: Yeah. So, talk about, talk about your music and your singing. So, what's your style and what do you love and what do you do?

Graciela: Oh, okay. So, when it comes to style, I'm still looking actually. I feel like I, I'd like to be a genre-less artist. I like, like uh, like 21 pilots, these artists you hear, and you have no idea where they're pulling from. But the finished product is beautiful. So, I just, whatever comes to my head, I love lyricism. I guess I would call myself. I'm a very lyrical person it's the thing I look for the most in a song for sure. Chris Martin from Coldplay, Lynn Gunn from PVRIS, Florence and the Machine, you know, beautiful lyrics. And music for me was that what the question, was is music? Music for me has always been the only thing I've ever understood. From a very young age I was always perked up in front of the television, looking at Disney channel and High School Musical and these kids just dancing. I used to be like dancing, like I just loved it. I did the whole brush in front of the mirror thing in your undies, you know, I still do it like, why not?

Heather Newman: I do too.

Graciela: Yes, yes. Bumping your favorite artists and you're just read it like singing and dancing and. Yeah. So, I just want to be able to attack music anyway that I want to make whatever goes inside my head. Even if it's not for me, make it for the people. I love the idea of writing for other people too. Because I, I make songs with specific artists in mind

Heather Newman: Oh cool. Do you write every day?

Graciela: I do. I make an effort. Even if I don't write, I sometimes I go without writing because sometimes you know, you just

Heather Newman: Life gets busy.

Graciela: You know, off day, but most of the time I make sure to record any key word that comes into my head or any, any melody that pops, everything's just constantly popping into my head and I just made sure to record them. But right now, I'm working on a song which is pretty cool. That's, well I can't really say it, it's going to be cool. It's a song that's going to be a project, so this project will be dropping on January. Did I just say dropping, dropping.

Heather Newman: Dropping

Graciela: Dropping

Heather Newman: Dropping in

Graciela: In January and it's a pretty cool collaborative effort so I'm excited for that. So. Oh, I should make a point to drop my Instagram. It's @lyricalyon and its spelled L-Y-R-I-C-A-L-Y-O-N. There we go.

Heather Newman: You were signing as you were doing that.

Graciela: I know I do that. I know, I took sign language.

Heather Newman: You know sign language?

Graciela: A little bit. L-Y-O. Dang, I forgot. It's been a minute. I took ASL at some point. I know how to. I know how to do Alicia Keyes If I Ain't Got You in sign language. It's my fun fact for everybody.

Heather Newman: That is fantastic.

Graciela: Oh, I want to. I want to keep being better though. I want to be able to. Even if, I want to be, you know, I've always actually had this idea of bringing music to deaf people. I've always had that idea even though they can totally feel it. Definitely. If it's there, like I've seen that science, but I would love to make concerts and live events more accessible to these people because everyone should be. I love going to concerts and I love the freedom you get. I love to be able to scream at the top of your lungs, all of this and I know it's not the same for them, but they should at least be included somehow.

Heather Newman: Absolutely. I was just at Voodoo Fest in New Orleans.

Graciela: Oh, I've always wanted to go to New Orleans.

Heather Newman: It's a great city. Reminds me, similar feeling of, you know, it's the Big Easy, you know, so there's a sort of islandy feeling.

Graciela: Islandy, Caribbean feeling. I can imagine that. Because you've got that history.

Heather Newman: It's such a melting pot with the history and all that. I see a kinship for sure. But the Voodoo Fest, they had signers at all of the stages.

Graciela: Cool.

Heather Newman: For All of the shows. I thought that was really cool.

Graciela: See, you don't see that here. Here When it comes to the, I feel like when it comes to our disabled people's program is terrible. Like I have my best friend and my best friend's brother is I believe has down's syndrome and he, after Maria had to go to the United States, there was absolutely no way he can be educated here because the programs were failing him. He's doing so much better now, so, so much better, but it shouldn't have to be that way, you know, it should be that he should get that kind of treatment here in his home. Not somewhere else.

Heather Newman: I do a lot of the work on diversity and inclusion in the tech world and we had a session at our event and it was interesting, you know, because you come at it with who you are and your perspective and all the things you've learned and the people you meet and all of that. And you're always learning, and I feel like when you teach you learn, you know, it's, it's a symbiotic relationship no matter what, you know. And that's the beauty of it. Right? And it was interesting, we had a bunch of students, college students who were in IT and talking to them about diversity. It was so interesting talking to them about that they were like, "Yeah, diversity is important to us, but we just do that." Like Puerto Rico. We just really do that because everybody's got such different backgrounds and everything. Do you find that as well?

Graciela: Yes

Heather Newman: The people here just seem. It's just that's the way it is. I don't know.

Graciela: Oh, wait. Okay. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. Actually no, because I feel like when you notice diversity is when, when it’s really punctual, like for example you have like New York, it's a melting pot, right? Same thing as LA, but here as long as you speak the same language and we understand the same social cues and the same accent comes out of your mouth. No more differences. I don't, you're Puerto Rican. That's it, no matter independent of how you look like. So definitely I want to say that if there were any diversity, would definitely have to be like um, differences from people who live in the city versus the country which is top is anywhere people from the beach versus people from the country. It's all different dialects and a little bit different. But at the end of the day, everybody shares the same history at the same, the same way of life in a way.

Heather Newman: Do you feel like as far as like men and women here or trends,

Graciela: The patriarchy

Heather Newman: The patriarchy and all of that.

Graciela: That we're still...

Heather Newman: We're all still working on it.

Graciela: We're all still working on it, honey. Oh my gosh, no. Um, you know, I was lucky enough and blessed enough to have a dad who actually cared so my parents are separated, but they, it took them a moment and I'm not gonna lie. Took them a minute for them to become friends again. But now they have a cool ecosystem going on and it's great. Like, um, so I was blessed enough to keep my father in my life. He's in North Carolina right now. He lives in between Florida and North Carolina and um, but I wouldn't say my family's ever been exempt from, from. How do you say machismo? From the patriarchy? Yeah, no, my mom had it really rough. My grandmother had it ridiculously rough. Growing up, my aunts, my cousins, you know, I haven't really gone through that because I am, I am a bisexual person and currently right now I am in a relationship with a woman, so I haven't had that, you know, and I have, I had a boyfriend before, but he was nice. Yeah. I'm actually, I'm actually like, I'm very like um, I know how to spot like terrible people. Like if you reach a certain, if you do something, that's it, we're done. I'm not communicating with you ever again. That is it. I'm a Taurus. I'm that kind of person.

Heather Newman: That tells me a lot.

Graciela: You mess with my family. The horns are coming out. That's the kind of person that I am. But um, no, but it definitely from telling. Well I actually, I also get the same, you know, genetic treatment. They don't the cat calling walking around. There's A lot of that here, especially with the boys and the boys and then the Trap music and kind of just keeps on spreading unless, you're conscious enough and smart enough to recognize the problem, you know. Because there's a lot of boys here that are actually very, uh, toxic masculine, anti-toxic-masculinity and it's cool. But at the end of the day the Patriarchy is still alive and kicking in got to keep fighting. We're currently at, my University actually is finishing up a campaign against sexual harassment and it was a wonderful campaign, but it's keeping, it's happening in our universities and in our schools, in our households. And it should stop. I have myself wrote a poem in Spanish about it. Yeah, for sure. I'd have to. Oh my gosh. Oh, my goodness. Oh my gosh. It's in Spanish, how can I translate?

Heather Newman: You don't have to translate.

Graciela: I don't have to translate? Okay. Okay.

Heather Newman: We can translate it later. Whatever. If you want to, you don't have to.

Graciela: Actually, I've been meaning to translate that one specifically. I have to get. Um, let me at least if I can get like a small little snippet. Okay. Here we go. Mind you, I have not memorized this even though I've had it written for a minute. My goodness gracious. My memory's faulty sometimes.

Heather Newman: I don't always memorize the stuff I write either. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't, it just depends.

Graciela: Here we go. So, it goes for all the Spanish speakers that are listening. (Poem in Spanish. Unfortunately, transcriber does not speak Spanish).

Heather Newman: Thank you.

Graciela: No, thank you for letting me, thank you for the platform. I'm so happy I'm sitting down talking to you today.

Heather Newman: I'm Thrilled with.

Graciela: I feel like, oh, but I feel like my favorite line from that poem. Let me see if I can translate it immediately here. Um, oh, here we go. Yes. Memory problems. Oh, "The people keep quiet about weird things. Saying that harassment is just a myth and if I end up opening my mouth, I'm the one who committed the crime." I don't know, you know, it's like people keep talking. It's like, oh, that harassment going on. That's not happening. You know, and you have to be strong and these are just boys being boys, when it's not true. These are actual grown men taking advantage of young girls and young females trying to do their thing and if they end up opening their mouth, they're the ones for have the crime.

Heather Newman: Absolutely. If you say something, sometimes you're the one that's seen as the victim, the victim or the person who's, we're seeing that a lot lately.

Graciela: It is shaming victims when it should be the other way around. Pisses me off. Expect the rap song about it.

Heather Newman: That's awesome. So, you, you're in school, you work here?

Graciela: Yes, I do.

Heather Newman: And you talk to people who come in. Do you get, do you meet just a gazillion different people? Because this place is so cool.

Graciela: We've had some interesting characters pop, pop through the door. Yeah. I've got some really interesting characters. None violent so far. Thank goodness. Some rude, some completely ignorant. But I had a, two or three days after I started, a pirate walked into my store.

Heather Newman: A pirate?

Graciela: Yes. A man, a self-proclaimed sailor. Who looked like a pirate. American and he just started speaking to me about all of the sailing terminology and I kept a straight face for 15 minutes while being read the Encyclopedia of sailormanship, if that's even a word.

Heather Newman: I think so maybe.

Graciela: It was hilarious. And he was like. And then he proceeded to teach me how to tie a knot with rope.

Heather Newman: Wow.

Graciela: So, I learned something that day. That's my most memorable character. But I love it here. I have a really nice community of artists and, and uh, I'm friends with all the people. There's a plaza in front of our store and I'm friends with all those people who just sit down. So, it's a very community effort.

Heather Newman: Do you know the fellow that dresses up? Like a sculpture?

Graciela: Yeah, of course he was right. That's Johan. He was right here. He was sitting right there. He was sitting right there. That's Johan.

Heather Newman: Oh, my goodness.

Unknown Speaker: Johan is a really good friend of Poet's Passage.

Graciela: He's an amazing poet too. Reciter, actor.

Heather Newman: We were at Piloto 151. Right. And so, we saw this guy walk up with a suitcase and we're like, what's going on over there? And watched him get ready.

Graciela: He's, he's so good.

Heather Newman: It was amazing.

Graciela: I try to get him to break character every time I get off work and he's doing his thing, but no, he just stares at me and goes. And he just proceeds to keep acting like a sculpture it's beautiful. But he's so nice. He's very, very. What I love most about him is, he's very well spoken.

Heather Newman: He speaks beautifully and just what, like how he does that with the you know, I was mesmerized.

Graciela: He was right in that corner.

Heather Newman: I can't believe he was sitting right behind us.

Graciela: I'm not so sure Maybe he might come back. If not, he'll definitely probably be here for poetry night tomorrow.

Heather Newman: Okay. Wow. That's so funny. Of course, you know him. I mean, I would assume that most artists and musicians

Graciela: To a point not going to lie. Yeah.

Heather Newman: Yeah. I mean this is the spot, right?

Graciela: This is the only place like this in all of Puerto Rico.

Heather Newman: Oh really?

Graciela: Yeah. No, there's no other Poet's Passage in the world at the moment. So, this is unique to right here.

Heather Newman: And will you talk about, um, Ms., the owner.

Graciela: Lady, Ms. Lady. Yes. Oh, I jokingly call her the pope, because it's when you spend enough time up here, you start to notice that she has touched so many people. So many people walk in through that door and telling me, this is for Ms. Lady. I love the conversation we had the other day, or I love this, or I love that. And she knows so many people, so many artists along the years. Um, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing to have. And, and she helped me. I, it was very difficult for me to find a job. I had a great resume. I was applying to CVS, you know, Journeys, the malls here and there. Even Walmart or Costco? No, these people could not take more people in like really? Costco. Costco. God Damn. Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. So, I was frustrated, and I came too late. I had been coming here as a poet for two years now, but my poetry skyrocketed, thanks to the people here listening to what they were doing. Two years ago, I knew nothing, you know, you know what I'm saying? So, you get better. So she took me in, she took me out to have some lunch one day and by this point and we were trying to form and take like a relationship and I had, she’d seen my face enough, enough times and I told her how, "Oh my gosh, Lady, I'm trying to find a job, nobody wants to give me nothing, I can't." I'm like, oh my gosh. And she's like give me your resume. I'm like, "Hold up, really?" She's like, "Yeah, why not?" And I'm like, but why didn't you tell me sooner? And she, I handed her my resume and two or three days later she called me letting me know that they wanted me. So, it took me a minute, like I thought I knew this place. No, I knew nothing, and it took me a minute. But now, now I open the store, close the store, clean it up, do everything people know me. I became part of, I integrated myself into this community. Being somebody from Caguas too. Like I wasn't born here. I was born in the center of the island from a much more mountainy area. And um, so it just happened. I can do something, so that's why sometimes I sit down to myself and I tell myself, I feel like I've been chosen for something, you know, like I feel like nobody else is living this kind of reality or at least this way.

Heather Newman: It's yours.

Graciela: Yeah. So, it sets me aback and it makes me feel so much more grateful. And so much humbler because I'm like, I could be living a completely horrifying reality right now. And this is mine, so I'm so grateful.

Heather Newman: Yeah, I agree.

Graciela: And there's a. But yeah, she's like a pope, man. She's, she's a beautiful poet, by the way, the way she uses all of these around the walls, all hers and the way she begins to end, she knows how to attack you with the least amount of words, which is a beautiful thing and she's just a bright soul. Everybody in here knows, or somehow has interacted with her and how she's helped the community in such a way to keep it alive and keep it happy. So, we love her very much shout out to you Lady. I love you.

Heather Newman: I bought one of the prints. I just, yeah, they're amazing. I agree with you about the grateful, you know, it's like I sit sometimes and I'm like, okay, well I'm sitting in San Juan, Puerto Rico doing a podcast with you lovely one and it's because

Graciela: I'm sitting here with you. Who would have made you walk through that door? Listening to like, at first, I didn't have to be singing that day. The store could have been empty like nothing happy was going on, but if you sat down and you felt something, call you and we. That happens. That's what actually, that's why we're called the Poet's Passage because you pass through here and each time you come in you always leave with something brand new.

Heather Newman: Yeah. I'm very grateful to Microsoft and the that I get to do on behalf of being part of technology and diversity stuff and so I'm

Graciela: Let me tell you, that's hard because I don't know, understand Jack about technology sometimes. How does this work? I admire anybody who knows how to work with computers and technology and things like that.

Heather Newman: Well it's like, it's the same about musicians and music. You know? Music and math I think are very similar and I know sounds weird, but it's like they're all a language. So, it's about learning the language. So, but yeah, I think um, I'm excited to watch your career and see what you do and anyway, I can help you.

Graciela: Thank you. No, you're helping me right now with the fact that just because I had, you didn't have to ask me for this interview. You didn't have to sit down with me. I'm just so happy that you're talking to me. I thank you so much.

Heather Newman: So, tell everybody again your name and how to get ahold of you and all that good stuff. I'm gonna write it all down.

Graciela: So, my name is Graciela, but uh, my artist name is Lírica León. It's a.

Heather Newman: Say it again.

Graciela: Oh, got it in Spanish. Lírica. León. Yeah, there we go. I like, I go by Lírica and things like the Spanish word for lyrics. So definitely like I kind of took to have nicknames that people had for me. Lírica came from my friend who was a rapper and stuff like that and he was like, "You're so good at lírica". And I was like, yeah, that sounds nice. And león was from the hair. Everyone's always like you have such cat-like hair. And I'm like the big hair, you got go get that.

Heather Newman: You have good hair.

Graciela: Thank you so much. And so now I just took those two together, but I just, I just go by Lírica, or Lírica León and definitely thank you so much. Again, my Instagram is Lírica León, but it's like L-Y-R-I-C-A-L-Y-E-N is it E or O-N? Yeah, sometimes I don't even. I swear I swear I passed spelling in English. I swear, I just have two languages going through my brain guys. Well here we go. It's L-Y-R-I-C-A-L-Y-O-N. There we go. Snap for that.

Heather Newman: Bam!

Graciela: Snapping for that.

Heather Newman: Thank you so much.

Graciela: Thank you so much. Lovely talking to you.

Heather Newman: And so, what are, yay, my heart is So full, mi corazón

Graciela: Mi corazón, yes. Of course, we have some things dropping soon, so if you guys follow me on Instagram, everything will be on Instagram.

Heather Newman: Must follow her, so thanks everybody. This has been another episode of Mavens Do It Better.

Graciela: Peace out guys. Thank you so much.

EPISODE 11: TECH MAVEN - MELISSA HUBBARD

Heather Newman:  Hello everyone, this is Heather Newman with your Mavens Do It Better podcast. I am sitting here in San Juan, Puerto Rico with the lovely and talented Melissa Hubbard. She is a Microsoft MVP. She's an author, a community speaker and blogger and she and I are here today along with a lot of other folks from our SharePoint community. Uh, we're going to do a diversity panel here in a little while and I thought Miss. Maven, I'd get her on Teams and Flow and all sorts of good things. So say hello to everybody.

Melissa Hubbard:  Hello everybody. Hello Heather. Thank you for having me. I couldn't pick a better place to do this podcast in beautiful San Juan.  yeah, it's really exciting to be here. The energy has been great. We have a great turn out, people are excited, people are seeing tools for the first time and it's literally in the middle of Erica Toelle's session, burst out "This is awesome!" about Microsoft Teams. It was really cool.

Heather Newman:  That's so cool. Well, so you're an MVP in what categories?

Melissa Hubbard:   I am an MVP in the business applications category. I specialize in Microsoft Flow, so as soon as Microsoft Flow became available, I was using it and one of the very first speakers on it.  so, I started speaking at user groups and then SharePoint Saturdays and then I've moved on to some other conferences and online stuff. But uh, I became one of the first five Microsoft Flow MVPs and I'm so happy that we just got two more female Flow MVPs. So now I have Flow sisters because we're like a really tight knit family of Flow MVPs, so I'm super happy.

Heather Newman:  That's exciting. I remember when you first came out and started doing it. It was very cool. So yeah, you're a great speaker. So I love seeing you out there. Do it all the great community stuff. That's pretty awesome. So, I know that people have been asking me, and I can't find the answer to this question, is that, was there a codename for Microsoft flow?

Melissa Hubbard:  So, you're the second person to ask me.  I've run a Flow user group. The first one in the United States it's located in Washington DC. My speaker Chrissy, she asked me the same thing and I don't know, I, I need to ask the product group about the code name.

Heather Newman:  I asked Jennifer Pearcy and I asked a couple of different people and I couldn't get an answer as well because usually there's a code name.

Melissa Hubbard:  Yeah. I just found out about the code name thing I'm getting it, you know, I'm still kind of the new kid. I'm finding out these little secrets here.

Heather Newman:  That's great. And so, talk about, you just authored a book. Congratulations. That's a huge, wonderful things so talk about your book a bit.

Melissa Hubbard:  Yeah. So it was a huge amount of work that goes into a book. I'm really excited that we finished it. I coauthored it with my friend Matthew Bailey.  so, it's an end user guide to Microsoft Teams with also chapters about governance and user adoption for business owners.  it, it was really, really fun to do because we kept discovering more and more things about the product. They talk about scope creep on a project. It was, you know, like, oh, we need to talk about this, but yes, it's available on Amazon.com.

Heather Newman:  And what's the exact name?

Melissa Hubbard:  It's called Mastering Microsoft Teams. Thanks. That's an important piece of information to mention the name of the book.

Heather Newman:  How long did it take you to write and put together?

Melissa Hubbard:  So, we started in December planning, December of last year planning the chapters, getting the contract signed with the publisher. A press and even just writing out the, the introduction to the book and stuff, you know, that takes time. So I would say it was about seven months it took. Yeah. And then you know, we still are marketing and things like that, writing blog posts and, and the product has updated since Ignite happened and announcements were made. So we're trying to add blog posts and you kind of supplement that way since there are a few changes

Heather Newman:  I think it's nice to have a base level and I think people still like there's some people love, a hard copy book that they can dog ear and put sticky notes in and highlight and all that kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like, because people have asked me, you know, what do you think, you know, are books, are books dead or whatever. And I don't, I don't know, I don't think they are. I think that it gives you a baseline for that moment in time that you add to. Right?

Melissa Hubbard:  I mean, people are, I've been really happy and surprised by how many people have purchased it and I've had people reach out to me and say, "Hey, I was at my client and somebody had your book". So I do think, you know, people sort of, people do still want a book,

Heather Newman:  Any guidance for somebody who's going to write a book, anything like, you know, you're like, oh my gosh, you must do this or must NOT do that kind of thing.

Melissa Hubbard:  My guidance would be, you know, first make your decision on whether you want to use a publisher or not and just know that with the publisher it's great to have someone behind you backing you on marketing and doing those types of things. But you're going to be on a strict schedule. So, if you want to just write when you're feeling creative or want a, you know. So for me, I struggled because I, my creativity and writing comes in kind of a big burst and then I, I go on streaks where I just have writer's block. So trying to stick to the schedule from a publisher can be tough. So just make sure you think about that. And then I liked using, using Planner, Microsoft Planner   to plan my chapters and then you can kind of drag them around when you decide when you know, oh actually this topic should be under here on this chapter. So, I did it like that.  I think it worked good.

Heather Newman:  I think that's a session you should create a session about that.

Melissa Hubbard:  Really?

Heather Newman:  Absolutely. So, uh, no, I think that maybe that's a session.

Melissa Hubbard:  Yeah, that's something to think about

Heather Newman:  You know? On how to, cause I think sort of alternate like using Teams. So, I've been doing a session on, you know, how to use it for, to become an event Maven, you know, and using it to plan an event, Teams and Planner   together, you know, because I feel like sometimes like if you, it's a good question for talking about Teams. It's like, when Teams gets deployed and you know, they're like "Here", you know, and all of a sudden people are like, "Uh, what is this?", you know, and so the guidance on here's a project or here's a thing to take care of inside of Teams, you know, so an event is sort of a logical way to kind of get people used to Teams and I guess for people who are writing a book maybe for using Planner  , I don't know, what do you think about that?

Melissa Hubbard:  Yeah, no, it's exactly. If you have a project that you're going to start and hopefully finish Teams is a great way to get up and running with that and keep everything in one location, all of your conversations, all of your content files, etc.  so yeah, I think an event is a easy to understand thing that you can see the value really quickly.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. And even on the book level, if it's a book or even an eBook or a white paper or something like that, using Planner   for a small project like that could be really useful.

Melissa Hubbard:  Yes. Matthew, my coauthor, we were living in Teams working on our book together I think would have totally driven each other nuts if we weren't in Teams because the amount of emails and discussions and we're both busy. We can't talk on the phone all the time. I've got a three-year-old running around screaming, you know, being in Teams and having. And our decision points are there. So, it's like, oh no, actually we said we were going to write about this and this section and it's all right there and you can work together.

Heather Newman:  So, I guess diverting a little bit and you mentioned your three-year-old and you know, obviously dealing with having a family and being in tech and being, you know, a gal in tech and all that. You and I have been talking about diversity about this panel and stuff.  I guess where did you get your start in IT?

Melissa Hubbard:  So, I started in IT while I was in college. I worked for the school help desk and then I've always been really lucky meeting really awesome mentors. I guess for that would be the right word for it, just other women who have taken an interest in and seen, my value and want to work with me and so I was just part time doing like work study and the help desk, but I really wanted to get full time and learn more. And so, uh, one of the women there, Tatiana, I always say her name wrong, I'm just going to say Tatiana. She taught me everything and helped me get hired full time. I took a step away from IT for a while too. I ran, a child protection and juvenile parole office in rural Nebraska and then I started using SharePoint there and then worked my way to Washington D.C. as a consultant in SharePoint. And now I'm consulting in SharePoint and Office 365.

Heather Newman:  That's awesome. Very cool.  I guess, you know what I like to know about sort of what moves us and what excites us about what we do and you know, for me like I love spreading joy and connecting people. That's my thing. And I talk about that a lot and sort of what, what sparks you? What gets you out of bed in the morning?

Melissa Hubbard:   I like to think that when I, when other people see me speaking and I'm blogging and writing and doing things like this podcast, that it lets them know, you know, I could do this too, or if there's something I, I think I could do, but maybe I'm a little nervous about it. Like, look at her, she's doing it. People approached me and asked me, "Oh, what do you think? Should I try to speak?" And it's always, yes, you should, you know, if you're even thinking about it, yes you should. And I, I get emotional talking it, you know, because sometimes people come up to me and they're like, "You know what? I saw that you were posting stuff about Microsoft flow. And I decided maybe I'd build a flow". I've had people email me like screenshots. I built my flow.  and uh, that's really what motivates me is sometimes it's easy to lose track of your motivation. So it's, you always have to try to remember really why you're here doing what you're doing or you know, you could get tired. We all have our times when we get down and stressed and forget. But you know, I should get that tattooed or something on my arm, my why I do what I do.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. I think it is easy to forget there's a lot of noise in the world and we get caught up in things and, and there's, you know, a little bit of fear I think in just putting yourself out there. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of goodness that comes from it, but there's also a lot of, I don't know, haters or just negativity sometimes too. And you're, you know, you're saying should I do this? Is it okay? You know, then like you hear nothing or you know what I mean? You're like "Caw-caw". And so I think, to your point, I think that remembering for all of us that like if you see something you like or something that moves you, tell people. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's super important and we don't do that enough for each other, you know what I mean? So, yeah, go ahead.

Melissa Hubbard:  So, uh, so one other thing that I like to tell people is that it's okay to be afraid and still do it. I mean, I'm always afraid before I go speak or I'm doing something new, you just have to take yourself out of that comfort zone and not let that initial fear of something keep you from doing it. Uh, I really feel strongly about that. And you know, if anyone's nervous about speaking, for me it has never gone away. It's just part of it. It's like part of the rush of it. You get nervous, then you kill it, you do awesome, you know, you get to feel that, oh, and then, then you see people connecting with you and learning and it's really amazing.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. I mean, in the theater, we call that stage fright, right? There's that moment of like, oh my goodness. And then you go on stage and you rock it out. Yeah, no, that's very cool.  we've been doing a lot of like Ignite and all of that and, I know that you're doing a lot of community events and blogging and stuff. What's, what's up next for you? Where are you going or, or where do you hope to be going?

Melissa Hubbard:  Yeah, so I have SharePoint Saturday DC is coming up and so I'm from the dc area, so that's always nice to have your local crowd there. We have SharePoint Saturday Virginia Beach as well.  that's, I believe the first SharePoint Saturday, I think. I think so, yeah.  and it, it's been going on over 10 years. It's the 11th year maybe. So, I love that event.  I, I hope to be part of the Ignite tour. I think that would be pretty awesome. That looks really exciting. It's a lot of different countries that Ignites going to and so for the people who aren't able to travel to Orlando gives them an opportunity to get a little taste of it. So hopefully I'll be part of that. Also, my Flow user group will be doing our second meeting. Yeah. So, we're getting that put together and that will be in January as well. So that's some of the things I'm sure some stuff will come up as it always does, but yeah,

Heather Newman:  I love it that you're, you know, building Teams for customers. I mean, you're really connected to customers through what you've been doing, right? So, you're getting in there and helping people really understand like if they have SharePoint already, have Office 365 and now they're turning on Teams and that's a lot of, with Flow and teams. That's a lot of where your expertise lies and really just like getting in there and getting people as an end user rocking it out as a team. Yeah?

Melissa Hubbard:  Yes, that's exactly what I've been doing. Meeting with organizations who either are thinking about going to Office 365 or already have, but just know that they aren't utilizing it to their fullest potential. Helping drive the conversation of what tool do I do with, for what, helping them plan how they will structure their teams.  that's a big question a lot of organizations have, you know, like when do you get a team, when do you get a channel? And that's different, you know, depending on their requirements and the user base. So that's, that's been really enjoyable because Teams is a tool, you'll see the value quickly. You're not going to turn it on and I've never heard anyone turn it on and start using it and be like, "oh yeah, well we used it a couple times and we don't use it anymore". Like you hear about other things, with teams, it's like, oh yeah, now I need to figure out how to change the app settings because it's going off too much from people using it so much.

Heather Newman:  That's super cool. I think I've always been struck when we met in New York, you know, I just, I love you're so cheerful and, no you are, and so passionate and I really enjoyed our conversations that we've had over the last bit getting to know each other a little bit more and it's really cool to see you, as a woman who is older than you and not by a ton but by some, just watching your career explode and the author and all that stuff, seeing you speak more and more. It's really nice to see and I really enjoy you in that way. So it's good.

Melissa Hubbard:  I'm not that cheerful. This is resting smile face.

Heather Newman:  Oh, come on.

Melissa Hubbard:  Having examples like you and other strong women in the community is, has really, really helped me. Like again, watching other people do it and be successful and like, okay, maybe I could do this.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. No. And I think that's something about our community, that's cool. So thank you for that one. And I think that, you know, some of the things we're going to talk about today and that we talk about is you know, how do we build. There's, you know, there's a piece of the diversity and inclusion that is all that you know, is, is about gender and it is about women and you know, and I think that there is something about us, one building male allies that we talk about and making sure, you know, and mentorships and all of that and we need men to help us to do many things, you know, in, in our communities. And we also need to really be helping each other and binding together to help each other. And you know, so we talked a little bit about, you know, some of the fear and toxicity stuff and I gave a presentation about that and it's like, you know, sometimes we, we can be our own worst enemies too.

Melissa Hubbard:  That is true. I really have been really lucky because I've talked to a lot of women and you know, for them, for a lot of people it hasn't been the same as it was for me, but I've always had really strong female allies and men too. but when I think about who's opened the door for me for different things, I've just had some really amazing women and still do. So it's,

Heather Newman:  yeah, absolutely. No, I think, I mean, our SharePoint community, our Microsoft community has been really great for that. And I think the pushing through Satya and his messages and like seeing those messages during keynotes and having them be repeated over and over again. It's like the message is clear. It's like, yes, it's about women, but it's how do we build diversity and inclusion and intersectionality throughout everything we do and let's think about it and talk about it and make sure we all understand what that means and that it's not just, you know, we're all learning and we're all trying to do best, do our best and make it better.

Melissa Hubbard:  I think it's knowing that you should be looking inside and realizing stereotypes that you might have as you're working with other people.  I think, you know, we all have those to say that you don't, you know, isn't true, but it's what you do with those. Are you thinking about that and realizing it when you're through your workday and having conversations with different people?

Heather Newman:  Yeah, no, absolutely. That's. Yeah, no, you're super on point on that one. So, so yeah. So what's your favorite book?

Melissa Hubbard:  My favorite book?

Heather Newman:  Besides the one that you just wrote.

Melissa Hubbard:  I guess I like Pride and Prejudice. Classic. Yeah. I'm not a huge reader to be honest. I'm more of an article, news reader, but you know, when I do read, I.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. Who. So who do you like in the, in either community or the world or whatever. Like I guess what's a place do you go to find inspiration or like stuff that you like, love that you're like, I go here every day to go look for something. Is it like medium or is it CNN or is it a combination of stuff?

Melissa Hubbard:  Okay. So, I'm pretty much addicted to Twitter and so I only follow people that I find motivational and you know, read articles that other people are posting.  and also on LinkedIn I've been using LinkedIn learning. I like that there's free courses, stuff like that. Again, our Flow MVP group is so close knit, so when we share each other's blogs and read those, I mean those get kind of nerdy and technical quick. But yeah, I also, I mean I have other interests obviously besides IT. I'm a, I'm a retired Muay Thai fighter. Yeah, I like to, I like to go to the gym and read fitness articles, things like that, so.

Heather Newman:  That's awesome. Well, I can't wait for our session and thank you for being on my podcast.

Melissa Hubbard:  Thank you for having me.

Heather Newman:  Absolutely. All right everybody that was Mavens Do It Better. We're going to sign off and have a lovely, lovely day. Cheers.

Melissa Hubbard:  Bye.

EPISODE 9: DIVERSITY MAVENS - MICROSOFT IGNITE STUDENT AMBASSADORS

Heather Newman:Hello everybody, we're here with the Mavens Do It better podcast with some experts on what it's like to be a student reporter at Microsoft Ignite. I'm your host, Heather Newman, and I have got three wonderful folks sitting with me and I'm going to let them introduce themselves and have them tell everybody a little bit about the student ambassador program inside the Diversity and Tech Program at Microsoft Ignite. So who wants to go first? 

Elizabeth Kiernan: My name's Elizabeth Kiernan. I'm a student at Valencia College and I'm studying computer science, most interested in software development and mobile app development. 

Heather Newman:Awesome. Welcome. And you're going to hear a little noise because we're in the expo hall, but that's all right. So bring it. Come on! 

Rachel Sera:My name is Rachel Sera. I am a student at the University of Central Florida. I am a senior majoring in computer science and I was invited to be a student ambassador for the Diversity and Tech track and all of the content so far has been so inspiring. And we've just been having an amazing time here so far at Ignite.

Heather Newman:Awesome.

Pia Nelson:  Hi, I'm Pia Nelson. I'm also a student at the University of Central Florida. I'm a junior and I'm studying computer engineering and psychology. I want to help make technology that helps people with mental illnesses get through their mental illnesses and potentially eradicate those mental illnesses. So, I'm really glad to be here at the Diversity and Tech conference to learn about what other people are doing with technology so I can like get a feel of what could be in the future. It's been great so far. 

Heather Newman:Awesome. Wonderful. Well first of all, thank you and thanks for playing. So, has anybody ever been to a conference this size before? 

Elizabeth Kiernan: No. 

Rachel Sera:No.

Pia Nelson:  I think this is easily the biggest conference.

Heather Newman:Yeah, or any festival or anything maybe like a music festival or anything like that? 

Elizabeth Kiernan: No.

Pia Nelson:  Not this big.

Heather Newman:Coachella, right? No? Okay. It's kind of like Coachella for tech people, but yeah. I guess first impressions of just coming into a conference like this?

Elizabeth Kiernan: A little overwhelming but really fun so far because you get to be around people who share the same love and passion for technology as you do. So it's nice to hear their ideas and be able to interact with them. 

Heather Newman:Yeah, absolutely. How about you? 

Rachel Sera:Yeah, I mean, I agree, overwhelming, because there's so much going on. My first impression though was how well organized everything is for how big it is and everything is just running so smoothly, at least from my side. You know, everyone else I'm sure is working really hard. But yeah, just being surrounded by technologists and it's a unique experience. Just so many great discussions and ideas going around and just being around my fellow tech nerds has been really great. 

Heather Newman:That's awesome. I know we're all a bunch of nerds, it's fantastic. How about you?

Pia Nelson:  So initially coming into this I wasn't really sure what to expect. And then the first thing that I got hit with was the scale of just how big this venue actually is. So, I was lost for a while coming in and trying to find where I was supposed to be, but I mean, once I found everyone, then it was just like immediately… words, oh my God. 

Heather Newman:You got acclimated fairly quickly. Is that right? Or. 

Pia Nelson:  Yeah. Everything kind of just fell into place.

Heather Newman:Fell into place for you

Elizabeth Kiernan: It's a very welcoming environment. 

Heather Newman:Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well that's cool. So, tell us about your job while you're here. What's your job while you're on set?

Elizabeth Kiernan: Jobs are kind of all over the place. We have specific diversity sessions that we have to attend. We've gotten to introduce speakers at their talks and we'll be getting interviewed and interviewing people. 

Heather Newman:Everybody is, I know you're all in the Diversity and Tech programming. So, you've been to the lunches?

All:Yes

Heather Newman:Okay, all the lunches. And then pre-day?

All:Yes

Heather Newman:Yup, I did too. I was running in and out. I'm a Microsoft MVP as well, so I was running from MVP to Diversity and back and forth. So, I didn't get to see everything, but luckily, we're recording everything. So anybody that wants to watch later. So let's talk. I like to talk about like nuggets, right? I always feel in this realm of diversity and inclusion that, you know, there's at a technology conference, first of all, you're drinking from the firehose. Even on the diversity and inclusion side, there's so much that you're trying to take in. And to me, I feel that if, I was talking to a friend of mine today, after the lunch, he came in and I'd met with a bunch of friends this morning and had some space to hold space with them, like friends I hadn't seen in a long time and we got to talk about life and it was kind of like we got to. We got really excited and then we cried a little bit. I was like, "I haven't seen you forever!" It was like one of those wonderful things about like eight, 17, 18 years in this community. Right? And it's just such a strong community that I have friends over decades. So you will have friends that you walk away with from this week that you will know in 10 years, 

Elizabeth Kiernan: Wow!

Pia Nelson:  Looking forward to it.

Heather Newman:You will. Because now, we're all welcoming each other in, we're going to be friends. So I get to watch your careers, which I'm totally excited about. Isn't that amazing? Right. So, it was kind of one of those moments where I was like, okay, you know, holding space for each other. And with the diversity, inclusion, intersectionality and belonging, I feel like if somebody walks away with a nugget or they feel happy or they learn one thing coming out of it because you're like, "Oh my God! There's so much!' Do you have a nugget? I mean, you know I'm going to ask you about what your nugget is, or at least a couple of them are things that you were like, that was on point, you know, anything come to mind?

Pia Nelson:  So today we talked a little bit about the imposter syndrome. I feel like a lot of people can relate to that feeling. Like you don't belong because everybody around you is like, on the outside, they seem to have their stuff together so well. So, I'm really glad that people are talking about that because I feel like it's something that a lot of people can relate to and it's not something that people are like actively, like going out of their way to talk about. No one's going around being like, "Wow, I do not belong in this room", or maybe they are and I'm just not hearing it. 

Heather Newman:Well everybody raised their hand in the room almost, right?

All:Yeah. 

Heather Newman:I mean, you know, I just told you a story about being a theater major, right? So, I didn't realize for a while when I was talking about myself, I would say, "Well yeah, I'm JUST a theater major", right? And I use my learning about empathy, walking in somebody else's shoes, every day. And if you're a decent actor, that means you can sell stuff and you can market to people, which is kind of what we're doing here. Right? We're selling software at the end of the day, right? So, like I didn't even realize that that was my language about how I felt about my degree, which I'm really proud of. So we all do it, you know. How about you? What's your nugget? 

Rachel Sera:So, one thing that I found was really inspiring today at the session that Dona Sarkar lead. She said something that really, well she said a lot of things that resonated with me, but one of them was someone asked, how do we build our brand, how do we do that next, like do all the things that we want to do. And so that's one thing for me, I tend to maybe over analyze or over prepare for things and she said you figure out what you want to do for this year, just one year. It doesn't have to be everything you want to do forever for the rest of your life and all the things just pick what you want to work on for right now. And that's so much more manageable. And I think that's just really great advice. You pick a scale, learn it, do it. 

Heather Newman:Absolutely. I love that. And it's about knowing your stuff, you know, like it's on each one of us I think to, you know, when you do a presentation, when you're doing your job, you know, like people are like, oh, I don't know, the imposter syndrome. And it's like, well, you know what, at the end of the day it's all of our responsibility and choice to really know what we're doing. You know, you all are going to school because you want to know more about computer engineering and computer science. And so I feel like that is absolutely true. You know, and with YouTube or LinkedIn learning or you know, you can pretty much learn how to do anything on the Internet these days. You know what I mean? It's usually about two minutes, you know, and maybe not master it, but you can definitely get there. So I love that. What she said. How about you? 

Elizabeth Kiernan: I also enjoyed hearing people talk more about imposter syndrome because it's not, I feel like, as Pia said, it's something that a lot of people relate to, but it's not something that people want to openly say, and say like, "Oh, I don't feel like I belong here because this person's done this and this person's done this and what have I done?" But really we've seen that everyone feels that way, just a little bit. So it's nice to hear a discussion about that. 

Heather Newman:Absolutely. So do you all have a voice in your head?

All:Yeah.

Heather Newman:Is that voice in your head super nice?

Pia Nelson:  Not all the time, no.

Rachel Sera:Not all the time. 

Heather Newman:No, I'm not going to swear on this, but I am from the Midwest, I sometimes have a sailor mouth, that voice is a (implied expletive), you know? I think that the imposter syndrome is deeply connected to that inner voice and that inner voice is deeply connected to fear and the lizard brain which has been around for 2 million years, which is that fight or flight, right? We don't have to run from saber tooth tigers anymore, but when I sit here, and I am with you, amazing lovelies I, you know. Maybe it's that I'm like, Gosh, do they think I'm fake? Why does she want to interview me and what's going on with her and does she have some wrinkles because she's in her 40s and ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. I don't know, but you know what I mean? I'm running a dialogue that is not really actually going on in my head. But the thing is you know, we do those things to ourselves, right? And it's all based on sort of weird brain chemistry and psychology that is inside of us. So, I kind of feel like if we can actually talk about these things, like you're saying, and we can say yes, imposter syndrome is real, lizard brain is real, the fear is real, that inner voice in everybody's head sucks, you know, then maybe we can start to get past that. So, do you do any sort of diversity stuff in school? I mean, and I don't mean to say stuff that way, but do you feel that that's part of your college? Is it just there? What's going on there for all of you? 

Pia Nelson:  I mean, there are clubs that you can join that are separated into different categories. I'm a member of NSBE which is the National Society for Black Engineers, so I can connect to that group of people because I am black and an engineering major. But there's nothing that I know of that's like specifically for diversity, like in general to like embrace diversity. I mean I guess specific clubs do, like embrace certain aspects of people. But I don't know of anything that embraces everyone as a whole.

Heather Newman:All the myriad of things that we might happen to the be, right?

Rachel Sera:Yeah. Like they were, during the pre-day, talking about the employee resource groups and how there are usually lots of those. But again, there isn't necessarily maybe what about if you are in a couple of groups or whatever? What do you do with that? As far as with our school? It's there if you look for it, but we're a huge, a huge school. And so, it's not necessarily there for everyone, but if you look for it, it's there. I'm President and co-founder of our ACMW chapter, so we're a women in computing chapter and so we definitely have a very strong diversity focus with that. I volunteer and teach Python to high school students and a lot of those students are students who wouldn't otherwise have such an opportunity. So I try and give back as much as I can like that. It's there if you look for it, and one of my goals is to try and get the knowledge out there more, get people to know, “Hey, there are these things. Maybe you should check them out?” 

Heather Newman:Yeah, that's awesome. How about you?

Elizabeth Kiernan: My school is much, much smaller than UCF. We don't have, nothing comes to mind that focuses really on diversity. There are a few specific clubs that you can join if you do fall into various category. But there isn't really a lot at my school. 

Heather Newman:Do you feel like encouraged? I also feel like with your generation, kind of in the political climate or the cultural climate we're in right now. We're in an interesting time. We're in, I think there's always been a revolution going on. It's just depending on if you're paying attention or not and I think things are coming up to the forefront with Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo movement and Women's March and lots of things that are going on. We're seeing much work of hundreds of years of work standing on the shoulders of giants, you know, coming up. And uncovering history isn't all that and that kind of stuff for women, women of color and religions and all of that stuff, which is lovely. I don't know. Do you, how do you feel about diversity sort of in your classes and sort of with your teachers and all of that stuff? Are you like, I'm encouraged to be here. I'm not encouraged to be here, or you know? I’m not asking you to like, your schools are all awesome and all of that stuff. But you know what I mean, like real talk. 

Elizabeth Kiernan: I have felt very encouraged in my environment since it's smaller. They're smaller class sizes and to be honest, I don't think I've had a bad professor. Even if it's not in the computer science field, everyone's been super encouraging and it's been really nice. Unfortunately I don't see very many other girls in my programming classes, but hopefully that'll change soon. 

Heather Newman:Sure. Well there's always a pioneer. There you go. Right on. How about you two going to the same school? 

Pia Nelson:  Yeah. I agree with the fact that you don't see a lot of girls, in coding classes especially. Right now I really do only know probably five girls that I've met outside of a ACMW. ACMW is a community for girls who code. It's really helpful to meet other girls because you don't see them in your classes. They're not there. Our classes are like few and far apart, in terms of time and when they are in. So, they are primarily male, very heavily male dominated and that's kind of intimidating sometimes. But I do feel motivated by that because if there are no girls then I mean it's because there aren't girls that are seeing that hey, they can do this. So, I mean, being able to be one of the people that they can possibly look up to one day. That's motivating. 

Heather Newman:Yeah. Yeah. That's one moment where they say, "Hey, that person is there. Maybe I can do that too. Oh, maybe I should consider that." You know, maybe I am a communications major that really has the desire to be a computer science major, but just didn't do it. What do you think? 

Rachel Sera:That's part of the reason why we founded ACMW is because you might have a few girls in your class, but maybe you're sitting on the left side of the room and they're sitting on the right side of the room. We're in these huge lecture halls and you never crossed paths. I mean, because there were a few in the classes but you may or may not interact and, so we did that to kind of be, hey, here's one space, here's where we're meeting this week and, you know, meet other women and share those experiences. As far as feeling included and well, I really do for the most part. I actually didn't start off as a computer science major I started as a physics major. And at our school, all engineering and STEM majors have to take at least a few coding classes, computer science classes and so I took my first coding class and I just fell in love with the problem solving. And actually my professor at the time was a woman. She was actually a woman of color. I don't know if that subconsciously was inspiring you know, seeing a woman or not, but she was also just a great professor. I learned a lot from her. And so, I started thinking I wanted to switch and then I took the next computing class and then that, I met another professor who runs the high school program that I volunteer with. He teaches to high school students and so I met him, and I thought this is just such a great thing that this person is doing something that I want to help out with and I just saw this really great sense of community being built by people at the school. And from there then I just started building community and more.

Heather Newman:That's awesome. So, I just realized that I was like, oh, I have to go to a meetup for Diversity and Tech. So I should probably go do that and wrap this up with you ladies. So first of all, again, thank you so much. Will you say your names again?

Elizabeth Kiernan: I'm Elisabeth Kiernan, Valencia College. 

Heather Newman:How do we find you on twitter? 

Elizabeth Kiernan:  Elizabet Kiernan, the H in my name was too much. So it's my name without the H. And then Kiernan, my last name. 

Heather Newman:Okay. What about you? 

Rachel Sera:I'm Rachel Sera. It's Rachel R-a-c-h-a-e-l, Sera S-e-r-a, just my name is my handle. 

Heather Newman:Right on. 

Pia Nelson:  And I'm Pia Nelson and mine is PiaNelson7 P-i-a-n-e-l-s-o-n 7. 

Heather Newman:Right on. Okay. Well, so great. Thank you so much. So y'all, that was your Mavens Do It Better experts podcast here with Heather Newman. Have a lovely day. We did it! 

Elizabeth Kiernan: Wow!

Rachel Sera:It was really fun.