Episode 25 of the Mavens Do It Better Podcast features Alicia Dara. Alicia is a nationally recognized voice teacher (singing and public speaking) based in Seattle. She has helped thousands of people break through blocks, find their voice, and put it to work. Her most popular group training is "Public Speaking Bootcamp for Women", which helps women strengthen their voices, clarify their messaging, and push back against workplace sexism.
Alicia and Heather caught up virtually from Seattle, WA, and Marina Del Rey, CA.
Listen in as Heather talks with Alicia about:
How to step into one’s voice and power as a public speaker
The use of the word “badass” to describe women and the evolution of how and what words matter
Her history as a feminist activist and what sparked her toward becoming a public speaking and voice teacher
Heather Newman: Hello everyone, welcome to another edition of Mavens Do It Better podcast. I am super excited today to have on Alicia Dara and she is amazing. She and I've known each other for a while and hadn't really sort of met and talked in a while, so, um, I got to catch up with her and she is a voice teacher. She's a coach, she's a musician, she's a blogger, she's a bad ass. All of those things. Yup. And welcome. Say Hi to everybody.
Alicia Dara: Thank you! Hello. Heather, your voice, can we talk about it? I was just telling my husband, I understand why she has a podcast because people just want to bath in the sound of that gorgeous purple voice. Really. It's rare and beautiful.
Heather Newman: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Well and right back at you. It's so, uh, when we were talking the other day I was like, I was like, just say more things please. That's so good.
Alicia Dara: Oh, that's sweet of you to say. I'm getting over the flu honestly this week. So it's not my best voice day, but I, I'm hydrated, I'm a little caffeinated, I'm even mentholated. I think I'm going to be okay.
Heather Newman: I know it's like slather on the Vic’s, right?
Alicia Dara: Yes. Exactly.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. Get that, uh, one of those, you know, the oil diffusers and, you know, get some of that good eucalyptus or whatever. Yeah.
Alicia Dara: Yes, free the lungs, free the breath.
Heather Newman: Free the breath for sure. So, um, so I know that you are, you know, obviously you, you do, you're a voice teacher with singing and public speaking and then you also do a bunch of group training. And it's Public Speaking Boot Camp for Women, right?
Alicia Dara: I do. So I give different kinds of trainings. My most popular training by far is called Public Speaking Boot Camp for Women. And it is a dedicated training in which we work on the three buckets of skills. You've got the basic anatomy bucket, it's how your voice works and how to take care of it going forward. You've got your sort of charisma bucket, which is kind of the way that you project who you are in the world. And the third one really has to do with like your content and whatever it is that you're going to say and how you're going to say it. So it is also a great, wonderful team bonding exercise for women. It's one of the reasons why I was made a Microsoft vendor actually because I was doing it so much and so many women were having this experience. And the first time I went in to give a training at Microsoft on campus to my friend's team in the Women in Gaming Group, I noticed right away that many of the women were sort of greeting each other as soon as they came in the room as if they kind of didn't really know each other like they've seen each other around here and there, but they weren't really like sort of like that close to each other. And after the boot camp everybody was talking and laughing and there was so much great feedback. I got so many people telling me wow, it was so great for us to just kind of bond in that experience. So it has that added benefit. It's wonderful and I give it regularly to the public as well. So it's a great place to meet other fantastic women and work on your public speaking in a supportive and encouraging environment.
Heather Newman: Yeah. That's awesome. And Yeah, I know you and I both share a Microsoft connection for sure because with my history on the SharePoint team and you know, being an employee, being a vendor and being a partner and all that kind of stuff. And so yeah. So I was really interested in that from that perspective because it's, it's really. Yeah. And you know, I had um, Julia White, uh, who's corporate vice president of Azure marketing on and she's just such a light and she's such a powerful woman and a speaker and you know, everything. And we, we talked a little bit about that, about, you know, because we see her, you know, on most keynotes that have, that are in that space. And she talked about, you know, being, you know, not being like, oh my goodness, I got to get onstage and I got to figure it out. You know. And, and I, and I love that people are willing to share those stories because, you know, public speaking is something that is high on the list of like spiders and sharks. It's terrifying.
Alicia Dara: Yeah it really is. Julia is kind of a legend. Public speaking is one of those things that is so, um, it has such a kind of a glow around it. It has such a glow of terror for so many people. And the funny thing is, well, once people sort of come into the full power of their voice, they actually tell me that they start speaking up for themselves in every area of their lives. So the way that I think about it is that there's a lifetime value. Like when you actually take a public speaking training and you decide you're going to work on your public speaking in a dedicated way, you're actually working not just on that particular event that you're working on, but also really on your, on the way you present yourself in the world. And for women especially that is so important. You know, it's so important that we're able to speak up and represent who we are and what we believe in, both at work but also just in our lives. It's, it's crucial for us.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. I, yeah. No, so on point. Yeah. I, I credit a woman named Donna Mussina who is an English teacher back in high school. Um, and a few other teachers there, but her for sure. She was my speech coach for the oratory team and so I was an original orator and I did a seven minute memorized speech and mine was on why censorship is un-American and little fiery of course I guess, but she really, that was the first person that like really outside of my family, you know, it's, but it's different when someone else does it, I think that's outside your, your family or your sort of group. And she really was like, let's talk about your voice and I'm not talking about what you sound like, but what you have to say and who you are and how you show up. Right? That was really an important. She was a, she is still in, was an important person in my life on that journey for sure.
Alicia Dara: Oh, that's great Heather. There's been a lot of social science to correlate between having a really strong background, like oratorial background, in high school and having higher self-esteem. There's a correlation there apparently, which I didn't know about. I just found out about. So, in other words, kids who take oratory and speech and debating and stuff rate themselves higher in self-esteem than kids who don't.
Heather Newman: Oh. Yes. That would make sense to me for sure. Yeah, that's, that's very cool. And so, you also, amongst your boot camps and holding workshops, you're also, so you have five original solo records as a musician?
Alicia Dara: Yeah, I do. And I actually, I actually sing and play in a band right now too. So
Heather Newman: What's the band?
Alicia Dara: My Band is called Diamond Wolf. Diamondwolfmusic.com. So, I was born into a family of professional symphony musicians and everybody in my community when I was growing up in Vancouver, BC, everybody was a musician. Everybody was an artist of some kind. And music is very natural for me. I was trained in New York City in musical theater and I've been a singer my whole life and I started when I was really young. I made my first record in 97', I think. So I made a lot of records and I also play guitar and I've written all my songs, et Cetera. Diamond Wolf is my main band right now, although we've taken a year hiatus to get a bunch of stuff done. But we're going to release our second record this year. Super excited about it. Everything got recorded to analog tape. It sounds sweet. Close harmony, folk rock singing. It's a great time. I just love it.
Heather Newman: That's so cool. And you know, we talked a little bit about both of us being theater majors and you know, what's interesting is I have another friend, Liz Sundet who was a, she was an arts major as well and she's a Microsoft MVP and you know, when you start digging around in technology, you know, I think the bridge between music and mathematics and then developing and coding is, you know, there's so many synergies that go along with that you know?
Alicia Dara: Yeah, and also improvisation. I just had this conversation the other day with a really close friend of mine who is also an actor and works occasionally at Microsoft as a speech coach. There is something about improvisation, like I am constantly advocating for improvisation wherever I go for Improv training because it is so important to be able to think on your feet and to be able to flow with ideas and to create something out of nothing is such an important skill, I think. And so many of the people that I meet in the tech industry who are kind of stuck in career stuck in their sort of where they want to go, what they want to do. You know, it's amazing working on public speaking and improvisation really opens them up. It's kind of amazing. And again, you know, if you really want to be a great public speaker, you absolutely have to improvise because you have to be able to answer questions. You have to be five levels deep on your subject. You have to be able to be articulate and compelling and engaging, not just in the prepared portion of your speech, but in the moments when you're on the spot answering questions and really helping people.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I, yeah, and you know, with theater training you get that, you know, those of us who were there, you know. I remember we were doing a Marivaux play called The Game of Love and Chance when I ran a theater company with folks in Seattle, and my wig fell off and my partner on stage with me was kneeling around me because he was begging me to marry him or something like that. And I threw my head back and my wig fell off and the audience like, died. Right. And he was like looking at me because he couldn't see that my wig had fallen off, right? But like in that moment it was like, what do we do? Do I pick it up? And we went on and he like looked around me, which made everybody laugh even more. But I think also transferring that kind of stuff into being a producer. I think that there's a lot of us, and anytime you build something, you're, you're a producer or maker, right? And so improvisation is super important with that because, you know, sometimes you know, that thing doesn't fit there and what do we do to make it work and can I get the elephant to show up in Times Square with Adam Levine on it? I don't know? Maybe.
Alicia Dara: Did you actually do that Heather?
Heather Newman: No, I didn't, but I love that example and I use it all the time because it makes people laugh, but I was like, I wonder if I was asked to do that, if I could really get it done.
Alicia Dara: Oh, I totally believe you could. My money's on you babe. My money's on you.
Heather Newman: I think so too, but, but yeah, I just wouldn't paint the elephant pink or anything because you shouldn't do that to animals. But anyway.
Alicia Dara: Yes, yes, that's true.
Heather Newman: For sure. But, yeah. So, and I know that you, so you're in, what city are you in? Tell everybody.
Alicia Dara: Seattle. I'm in Seattle.
Heather Newman: Yep. Absolutely. So coming to us from Seattle and today I'm, I'm at home in Marina del Rey. So we're obviously doing this virtually. I know that you also have, from your bio and from talking to you and everything that you have been an activist since you were about 15.
Alicia Dara: I have been. Yes.
Heather Newman: Yeah. So will you talk a little bit about that because close to my heart too, and love for you to talk about that?
Alicia Dara: Sure, sure. Yeah, I've been a feminist activist since I was 15 years old. When I was 15 a teacher in my classroom at home in Canada, stood up in the classroom and spewed out some horrible anti-choice rhetoric and I stood up, pointed my finger at him and I said, you can't do that. And he threw me out of the classroom and I went right down the hall to the principal's office and I told him what happened. And I later learned much later that he had been censured, which is kind of a big deal in Canada up there. Um, and because of that I was voted most likely to start a new feminist movement in my high school yearbook, which is not, it was not meant as a compliment. It was, it was a pejorative, it was put down. Because, you know, at that time it was still kind of a dirty word and sort of considered to be kind of a throwback and stuff. And I already knew who I was. I already was fine with it. Um, you know, I, it wasn't a problem for me, but um, ever since then that was my first real lesson and understanding like, Oh, if you, if you stand up for something that you really believe in, that is controversial, people are going to call you an activist and you better be ready to do that, you know? So, um, so I, yeah, so I serve on the board of advocates of Planned Parenthood of the Great Northwest because women's healthcare and wellness is my passion. My other passion, aside from women's voices, and periodically I go around and I talk about the work that I do, that I've done volunteering with Planned Parenthood. I've done everything from stapling papers together to photocopies to speaking at events and I also put together, a couple years back, I put together a CD compilation of northwest bands to benefit Planned Parenthood. And it's kind of my spiritual mother. I love it and I also just really work very hard to make sure that every woman that I come in contact with, every woman that I'm with really understands her value and is really in touch with that and really sees the bigger picture in terms of how important women's voices really are. It's funny, Heather, I loved that at the beginning of this, of this intro, you called me a bad ass because I just sent out an email yesterday to my mailing list, which is how I mostly communicate with everybody, via email. I sent out this email about how I can't stand the term bad ass women and about why it sort of bothered me and really it comes down to the fact that. And there's, you know, there's a whole argument to be made about it besides, but for me, what I wrote in my post, just briefly to summarize, because it's quite, it's quite a long one. Women are constantly being told how to be women and we are under enormous, just huge, enormous cultural, political and social scrutiny. Every single thing we do, every single thing wear, every single thing we think, every single thing we say is under scrutiny and really creating this sort of category of like, you know, women who are like bad-assed, creates another category of women who are not. And ultimately I believe that's bad for women actually.
Heather Newman: Well, it's kind of the term Wonder Woman too, right? Potentially.
Alicia Dara: Well yeah. Like I mean I think women who are living under horrible violence and oppression and poverty are bad ass wonder women. And I don't think any of them are getting any kind of credit for that.
Heather Newman: Right, they're not called bad asses on a podcast necessarily.
Alicia Dara: Yeah. Yeah, totally, totally. Like it's just really a question of kind of understanding the sort of bigger picture at work. But for me it all comes back to women's voices. The thing that I've learned in the 20 plus years I've been doing this job is that women's voices are always about women's power, how we feel about our power, how we broadcast our power to the material world and how the world responds to that power. So in my activism, and in my work that I do as a voice coach, a professional coach, I'm always keeping these things in mind and I'm always asking myself, how can I help make women's voices stronger today? That's my mandate.
Heather Newman: Yeah. I love, I love that. And thank you for sharing that because I feel like, but I swear, I just, I had a couple of conversations earlier today talking about, oh gosh, inclusion and belonging and diversity and all of that. And, and you know, and thinking of how you spoke about the feminism and the word feminist and that where it's a dirty word and hearkening back to a dirty word. And I mean today it's still a dirty word and in many, in many camps, right? Right. But, but it also, like I wrote a piece about how words matter and you know, like dissecting, sort of say the word bad ass, you know, if you look at what is it, is it Jen who wrote the book? You A Bad Ass. Jen Sincero, I believe. Yeah, she's amazing.
Alicia Dara: She's a great coach. Jen is great coach.
Heather Newman: Yeah. She's someone I, you know, in the myriad of coaches and all of that, you know, you've had so many male voices especially, you know, I mean you harken back to Napoleon Hill and that whole Think and Grow Rich and Tony Robinson, you know, so like Zig Ziglar and all that kind of stuff. And I was talking to a friend, I was like, who are the women? Can we name five? Can we name 10? Can we name two? You know? And so that was kind of interesting in talking about that. And then dissecting words, say like the word bad ass or wonder woman, just like we were talking and I, and I love it that you just wrote that, that I called you that. That is fantastic. And because it is something that I'm like, we're all evolving all the time. Right? And we're all trying to say the right things or you know, I had an issue with somebody, it wasn't me, but I referenced Brenee Brown's book where she used the word "gypped" and she had someone come up to her and looking at sort of intersectionality of the vitriol that somebody came at her with.
Alicia Dara: Oh, my goodness.
Heather Newman: But then she got, she said, well, she shouldn't have come at me that way, but it's like, wait a minute, somebody who's been oppressed or, you know, had years of discrimination and all of that, they have a right to be mad, right?
Alicia Dara: It's funny about the word Feminism like, I think when I was younger, I thought that I had feminism all figured it out. And really, what I had figured out was white feminism. Like I had a really good sense of what that is. Intersectional Feminism and understanding the fact that all, you know most people don't even know what that word means. But really the fact that all movements of oppression prop each other up. And so all movements of social justice are connected. It's so important for us to understand. And the concept of intersexual feminism I think promotes a personal evolution that is so powerful, you know, and just the constant awareness and the understanding that we are always evolving. We're always out here learning. We're always, you know, hopefully we're always maintaining an openness and understanding of what it is that we really want for the world. I was just reading right before we got on with our talk, I was just reading a, just a terrible report today about just the, you know, this woman who's an amazing trans activist. She just spoke at an event, she's the PR spokesperson for the Human Rights Campaign and she was just speaking at an event in the UK and there were some women who attacked her for being a trans woman. And they did it very, very publicly and they did it in this very big official event. And this woman just held herself with so much grace. And she said, you know, we just finished this extraordinary event where I spoke to all these young trans people and I'm not going to let this incident of hatred, you know, overshadow that. But really, you know, and these women who were attacking her actually call themselves feminists. They call themselves radical trans exclusionary feminists. They have a vision of what that means to them, you know, and all of these things are very, these issues are very hot. They're very charged, you know, but hopefully, ideally it doesn't culminate in people's minds becoming narrower and more full of hatred. Hopefully we stay open and we have a dialogue with each other and we respect each other's fundamental human rights. And, and ideally that's the place we want to live in.
Heather Newman: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I mean I was saying, I was like, you know, my, like with you also being a theater major, I was like, you know, when, when I say look at myself and I'm like, well, my art, my heart is of an artist. That's kind of where I start. And then
Alicia Dara: Me too.
Heather Newman: Right, you know, like that's where, that's where my, where it starts, you know, and then you know, I'm a marketer and a brander and a strategist, you know, and then,
Alicia Dara: Yeah, you're a world builder. That's your thing. Yeah.
Heather Newman: Thank you for that. But, um, but then, you know, and then there's the things you care about, right? And that you're passionate about and all of that that stem out from that and whatever those things are and whatever you call them. But, you know, it's definitely, I really enjoy doing the work in these spaces of women and voices and inclusion and all of that. But it's hard.
Alicia Dara: Of course it is. Of course it is.
Heather Newman: And I say that, and maybe somebody is listening and they're like, Oh, poor you Heather Newman. I'm like, yeah, I know I'm sitting here as a white privileged woman who gets to do a podcast because she can. So I know that. I'm aware, you know. So, but it is, I love the connection and looking at what you've been doing of like the intersect, your intersectionality, if you will, or maybe just more your life of where you've taken something that's very artistic and you've been, you know, bringing it to other people. Being a world builder of your own in helping people find their voices and also coloring that with all the things that you come to the table with.
Alicia Dara: Thank you. I so appreciate that. And I will say I think that there, I think the arts are part of the solution.
Heather Newman: Yeah, I agree.
Alicia Dara: I'm sitting here in my office looking at a poster by Shepard Fairey that says, "Make Art Not War", you know.
Heather Newman: Oh, my goodness. I have that in my bathroom. That same poster.
Alicia Dara: Oh, that's awesome. I just got it. I've had my eye on it forever and I just got framed. I think that the arts are part of the solution and I think that there is so much to be said for a mind, a human mind and heart that is, that is connected to the arts and to what the purpose of the artist is. My father used to talk to me when I was younger about what the, what the purpose of the artist is in society. Which is to reflect culture, to express culture and ultimately to help create culture, and hopefully, you know, again really to work toward a fulfillment of supreme human rights, which is kind of, you know, so much of what artists are doing, especially now, I think is expressing, well really throughout history, is just expressing a tremendous, a release for so many oppressive and oppressed cultures. You know, any time, there's a conventional saying in academia and the arts, which is that anytime artists are forced underground the art that they make becomes extraordinary. It just kind of explodes, you know? And I think that we're seeing that now and I do think that there is a place for an artistic mind and for the artist at every level of society everywhere, really in every level of business and industry. Just like there's a place for women in every level of business and industry. So I appreciate that too in a big way.
Heather Newman: Well and song. Just simple songs that, you know, kept people going during all kinds of situations, just even that little thing, you know, like throughout history, right? Just that, just a simple song that people would sing quietly to keep their hearts from, I don't know, breaking, exploding, you know, just, yeah. I was like, you just gave me goosebumps. Okay. So, let's talk about, you are writing a book. Let's talk about that.
Alicia Dara: Oh goodness. Thank you. Thank you for mentioning that. So I've been working on this book that comes from a lot of the stuff that I teach during my training called Public Speaking Boot Camp for Women because I've been contacted by women around the world. I've been contacted by women from India and from China and from Japan and from many different places that I'd never been and don't know if I ever will be able to travel to. I would certainly love to, but just in case I can't. I'm working on this book that really kind of takes a lot of the things we've worked on in the boot camp and a whole bunch of other stuff that comes from my years of experience of just thousands and thousands of hours of observing women and working with women at close range. It Kind of takes it in, it's an amalgamation of all the lessons I've learned and it is a little bit prescriptive and it's got a whole bunch of tips and tricks for working on your voice and it's coming out sometime this spring. Cross your fingers. If you would like to know more, please sign up on my email list via my website. I love to communicate with everybody. I am active on social media, I'd like to say, but I really do love communicating with people via my list, my email list. And I'm so excited about it and very shortly I'll have the cover of the book. I'll have some updates for everybody. Yeah, I'm excited.
Heather Newman: That's awesome. When you get ready for that, I would love a couple too, I'll get some from you and, pay you for them obviously, but I'd love to give them to a couple of our listeners and maybe do a little contest around that. That would be awesome.
Alicia Dara: Yes, a contest, that would be great. I love contests.
Heather Newman: Yeah, me too. That's great. So, gosh, so much. Uh, so it's something that I always ask everybody and that I'm very interested in is that, you know, looking at moments of sort of macro moments, micro moments in your life. And there's always the big things, you know, sort of the, you know, loves and deaths and marriages or kids or what, you know, like all of those biggies. Right. And then there's all the little ones where you're like, oh my goodness, that little one thing that was just a word or a smile or something, just was the spark that led me to x, y, z. and so can you think of, what's your spark like maybe one of those things that, where you were like, yes.
Alicia Dara: Oh my gosh, I saw Anita Hill, Professor Hill, Dr. Anita Hill speak. So in 2011 I was asked to make the, what we call "the ask" at a Planned Parenthood fundraiser here in Seattle. And it was, it was unbeknownst to me, it was at that time the biggest luncheon for Planned Parenthood Votes Northwest at the time it was called the organization. So the, the political advocacy arm of Planned Parenthood, had a big annual fundraising luncheon and it was at that time the biggest luncheon, you know, and Jay Inslee, our now governor was there, and I had to make the ask of the donors and also I had to introduce him and it was like, you know, up until that point, the highest pressure I think public speaking gig I had ever really done and our guest of honor was Professor Hill, Dr. Anita Hill. And I just remember there was this moment she took the stage and you know she's kind of a petite woman. But she's one of these people who just radiates this enormous presence. And I just remember when she took the stage, there were two moments for me. One was just when she stepped up to the microphone, I immediately felt the entire weather system in the room change. It was so dramatic and you couldn't, there's no way, there's nothing you could point to, like it all happened sort of energetically, like on an energetic level. Everybody just felt her, you know, and it was before she even opened her mouth. And then she started speaking and I just remember being a kid, like a young woman watching these trials and watching what she had been through and at that moment when she was speaking, I got a sense of how time passes sort of for each of us and how, how these movements of social justice keep evolving and how they become more and more powerful as long as we keep them alive. So the fact that this woman had been through all this, I mean, I don't know what happens to people after they've been through an experience like she went through in the 1990's when no one believed her. Nobody believed her except for a small but dedicated group of people who said, yeah, we, you know, but so, she could have easily folded up and just said, you know what, I'm just going to be quiet and teach and not really like interact with people anymore, but she hasn't done that. She's gone on to become this extraordinary advocate and person and, and so I think I just kind of in that moment also I just realized like, you know, if she can do it, I think I can probably ramp up whatever it is that I'm supposed to be doing. Like it just sort of hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like, Oh yeah, like I'm here giving this talk and that's great, but there is so much more I could be doing, you know? And so I still, I still think of that. I still remember it quite vividly, how she, how she affected me and how she changed the room with her presence. As somebody like you who studied theater, I had been in the presence of great actors who do that. And certainly I've coached my share of very charismatic speakers, but this was something different. It was something from the spirit that was forged in a fire like a public fire. And because of that, she was just in a very deep way, she was utterly fearless.
Heather Newman: That's so cool. What a great spark moment. Okay.
Alicia Dara: I guess I kind of , I don't know, I guess I kind of aspire to that in some way. Yeah.
Heather Newman: Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Thank you for sharing that. I just find those things super interesting and everybody's is always very different and it's, it's not like you just have one, you know, there's more than one, but usually there's something that sticks out that's like that one thing when you're like, oh yeah, that was.
Alicia Dara: Definitely. Yeah, I think those moments are kind of like touchstones. They're like personal touchstones that you return to. Hopefully we're all kind of, hopefully we're all kind of like paying attention in our lives and learning from the stuff that's really important.
Heather Newman: Yeah. I'm fascinated with that and that when, and if this book ever comes out of mine that it's definitely about that, you know?
Alicia Dara: Oh, my goodness, I hope so.
Heather Newman: Yeah. I'm very interested in. And that's why I keep asking the question to everybody too, but uh, but I also just find it fascinating. So yeah. So. Oh my God. So, you are available online at www dot alicia dara dot com and it's spelled like Alicia Keys. Yeah, and the best way to connect with you, obviously you can do it on social media and we'll have all that stuff in the show notes everybody but um, but yeah, like get on that list of hers because she's, I know I love your stuff that you put out and you have a great blog and are putting things out all the time.
Alicia Dara: Thank you.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like we should, you know, look for your book to come out and maybe you'll give me a nudge when you have a book cover and I'll make sure.
Alicia Dara: I certainly will.
Heather Newman: Blast that out on social media and
Alicia Dara: And I'm at Microsoft. I'm available for hire at Microsoft. I'm a vendor. I'm available. I would love to come and train some more teams anytime. I love being at Microsoft. It's so international women from all over the world I get to work with. I love it there.
Heather Newman: Yeah, yeah. So all you Microsoft folks that listen and I know there's a lot of you that do, check her out and say hi and uh, you know, tell her that you heard about her here on the Mavens Do It Better podcast, ha ha. But yeah, but no, I so appreciate your time and, and just what you're doing in the world. Thank you for that and thank you for lifting us all up.
Alicia Dara: It is my pleasure, heather.
Heather Newman: It's really wonderful. So. All right. Thank you. And signing off. Thank you everybody. It was great to be with you again for another Mavens Do It Better podcast. I hope you.
Alicia Dara: Yay.
Heather Newman: Yay. Hope you have a wonderful day and thanks again.
Alicia Dara: My pleasure.
Heather Newman: All right, bye everybody.