Episode 34: Tech Maven Robert Bogue

Heather Newman:  Hello everyone. We are here for another episode of Mavens Do It Better. I am here with the awesome, wonderful Robert Bogue.

Robert Bogue:  I'll be my own fan club today.

Heather Newman:  Dear friend and colleague and we are catching up, where are we? San Diego!

Robert Bogue:  Yes, we are.

Heather Newman:  Yes. And we just saw each other in Seattle. That's kind of a back to back and then we haven't seen each other in a really long time.

Robert Bogue:  Right.

Heather Newman:  Absolutely. So, yeah, we're at the AIIM Conference, so it's kind of fun. So, I wanted to have Rob on, as you all know, these interviews are about extraordinary experts who bring a light to our world and I definitely think that about Rob in many, many realms. Definitely in technology and he's got all kinds of really cool things that he does outside of that as well that we're going to talk about today. So, but let's start off with your moniker in the technology, in the SharePoint community that you've had a long time.

Robert Bogue:  You mean the SharePoint shepherd?

Heather Newman:  Yes.

Robert Bogue:  Or the guy that carries the big stick.

Heather Newman:  Yes.

Robert Bogue:  It's actually a crook.

Heather Newman:  Yes, he carries a crook around y'all. So where did that come from and how did that start?

Robert Bogue:  Honestly, I needed an alliteration. I needed something that would be funny and I'm like S's and Sherpa was taken and so then it became shepherd. And then, so I do travel with the staff. And I often get asked how I do that. I have a trick staff. It breaks down into three pieces.

Heather Newman:  Oh, my goodness.

Robert Bogue:  And so, I'm always worried that TSA is going to stop me, because I have like a quarter staff in my bag.

Heather Newman:  Oh, sure. Cause it's still pretty big, right?

Robert Bogue:  Well, you know, you think you assemble them, so they don't know the difference between a quarter staff and a shepherd's crook. So, but that's how that started. We initially published the SharePoint Shepherd's Guide for End Users in 2008.

Heather Newman:  Wow.

Robert Bogue:  On the 2007 version then we did 2010, 2013, 2016. And now, we're kind of in this continuous integration for Office 365.

Heather Newman:  Right. And it started out as a book?

Robert Bogue:  So, it was always a book that wasn't supposed to be a book. So I 'd been doing publishing for a really long time. And so I knew how to do that, I knew how to make books. But it was always intended to be tasks that you put into SharePoint that were searchable. And so we do the book, I call the book, that's our promo materials. And so we've been doing that for a long time and it's super cool. I love the ability to customize so our customers can change the content. And even as we're doing updates, we leave their content intact. They can add new content and it's super searchable because we actually deploy into their environments.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. I was just going to say, tell everybody how you deploy.

Robert Bogue:  It's a push and you don't have to have super permissions. You start the program and it pushes all the content in and so that, that then makes it a part of your search index. So you do that, and you do a little keyword action word for help and somebody can type in "help column" and it'll give them all the results for columns. We also do for, for the customers who have multiple versions of SharePoint, like we've all kind of, you know, it's kind of like we've collected dishes over the years, right? And they don't exactly match. And so there's actually a version selector. So if you are saying, oh, how do I add a column in Office 365 and you're like, how was this done back in the dark ages of 2007, you literally click on a selector and it shows you the way it was done in 2007. So, it's super fun to walk down memory lane.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, no kidding. That's awesome. And with that there are, tell everybody about, because I know because I, we, so Rob and I talk on Skype sometimes on video and so like he can see like my office and I can see his studio and all of that. And I know that you have a really fancy studio at your place with a green screen and all that kind of jazz. So, like you are also making videos all the time that are part of this is as well.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah, absolutely. So, the Shepherd's Guide comes with videos. So every task comes with videos. But then we also do other course productions. So, for instance, AIIM, the conference we're at now, that organization, I built their Implementing Information Management on SharePoint and Office 365 course that they sell. And the funny thing about a video studio is, the video is the easy part. The audio is really super hard and so I have more invested in the audio in my studio than I have in the video. Getting all the sound suppression panels and covering every panel. And the audio gear and all that stuff to make it sound beautiful. Super expensive.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. No, I, yes, it's not cheap. That is for sure.

Robert Bogue:  So, that's what, for me, that's been the thing that the video we produce is beautiful. It's pictures beautiful, but it is rock solid on the audio side. And so I just love that about having a studio.

Heather Newman:  That's awesome. Yeah. I think that, you know, even with podcasts and stuff like these little zoom, like we're, I'm using an H4N Pro Zoom, you know, and this has a pretty good microphone and stuff, but when you start doing it when we're not in person. Oh my goodness. You know, it's like if you're using bad equipment, it sounds terrible. And someone was like, I think it's in this ear and not that ear and when it plays in my car. And you're just like, holy cats. Like it was just a lot to think about making content with this sort of thing. So, yeah. So you are also an awesome book reviewer. So if you don't know this, I post a lot of Rob's book reviews. Like I'll post them up on my Creative Maven site cause I think they're awesome. And what's great about them is that they're like my own personal sort of Cliff Notes.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. I don't have to read the whole book. I can just read Rob's thing, it takes me a couple minutes and I'm good.

Heather Newman:  It's great. Or giving me a flavor if I want to read something or not. But so, talk about how you got into doing that. I mean, obviously you're a reader, so

Robert Bogue:  So, I started five or six years ago, and it was this part of my life that, it was a period of time in my life where I needed to grow. I was going, I went through a divorce and got remarried and I started thinking like, you know, the thing I'm going to do for me, the thing I'm going to do to grow and become a better me is I'm going to read a book a week. And that was really easy when you didn't have other people you need to worry about. But I kept it up. And though most people think my reading list is boring because it's, it's marketing, it's psychology, it's leadership, it's business, it's all this stuff. But none of it is like fiction or you know. Um, so every single week I will read a book and then I post the review Monday morning at eight o'clock eastern time. The only other interesting thing, because you said it's a good summary, but the thing I enjoy most about it is linking topics together. So for me it's, oh this and marketing, and this and psychology, and this and business, and this and leadership and, and connecting all those things. That for me is the part that is allowing me to keep doing it.

Heather Newman:  Right. Yeah. Everyone, we'll put a link to his stuff in the show notes, but it's really, it's cool. I like that, well I like your brain. So like, I like the way that you do those connections and, and link other books, you know, that you've read into sort of how you think about stuff. So you've been in the Microsoft ecosystem for how long?

Robert Bogue:  Well, first the earth cooled, then the dinosaurs came. So, I've been in it for a really, really long time, a couple of decades. MVP for 15 years now. Just super fun. Lots of great people. And we've been a partner for a long time too, but that's, yeah, that's just kind of what you have to do.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And tell everybody where you live and where are you from and all that.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. So live in Indianapolis been there for a long time. We have seven kids, two dogs, and it's just a great place to be. Not so great in the winters, but you know, I'm kind of digging this San Diego weather.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. Not so bad. I'm from, you know, I'm from Michigan and I lived in Zionsville right there. So I'm an Indiana gal myself for some years growing up. Yeah, it's a good place to be.

Robert Bogue:  It's good people.

Heather Newman:  For sure. Yeah, I know, I like that too. And with, you know, seven kids, I know your wife who's lovely, who's visited me in California before and you two have really cool things that you collaborate on together as well. Will you talk about some of your collaborations?

Robert Bogue:  So, there's a couple of things that we did. So back in 2015, one of the things that we did was we created a set of child safety cards. So, Terri was supporting the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit and noticing that parents and kids weren't really talking to each other. And so we created cards to get them to talk to each other. And then we added safety sayings from the CDC or the American Academy of Pediatrics. We had a dice replacement. And so that's in our Kin 2 Kid brand.

Heather Newman:  Say it again?

Robert Bogue:  Kin 2 Kid. K I N , the number two, K I D. So we do that. We have a book coming out in May. The Society for Human Resource Management is going to publish, Extinguish Burnout: A Practical Guide to Prevention and Recovery. And then we're going to be speaking at the national conference, which is super fun. And it's, it's about how do you not get burnout in what you do. And nursing has this, healthcare has this, IT has this. Everybody has this. Right. And you can get burnt out in life as you know.

Heather Newman:  What do you mean "as I know", what are you talking about?

Robert Bogue:  Uh, I don't know? I think we've all been there.

Heather Newman:  Yes, we have. And we've talked about it extensively. So anyway,

Robert Bogue:  Yeah, so we've got that going on. We had a patent issued last month, so in February we had a patent issued for an IV dressing innovation. The short of it is, dressings need to be clean, dry, and intact to prevent bacteria from getting in your bloodstream and killing you. And it's hard to assess dryness cause you always have gloves on. So, super, super simple, and we're super looking forward to that getting out in the market. Hundred thousand people, roughly, die every year from healthcare associated infections. So we're trying to like save lives. I mean it makes the SharePoint thing seem really boring, but I love the community there too.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, absolutely. That's so, yeah. You two collaborate a lot together, which is really exciting. And then you are doing things, I don't know, like how does, do they just come up because of something you're passionate about or is it?

Robert Bogue:  Like how did it come about?

Heather Newman:  Yeah, yeah. How'd it happen?

Robert Bogue:  So, the cards started on a conversation back from a SharePoint Saturday in Atlanta. And we were frustrated because parents and kids weren't talking. And we're like, well how do we get them to do that? And then it was cards and then, and it just snowballed, right. The dressing, we were on our way to our son in Connecticut and we're driving through the middle of Pennsylvania at 1:30 in the morning. By the way, there is nothing in the middle of Pennsylvania, much less at 1:30 in the morning, it was dark. And, Terri was whining a little bit about this kid who got sick from a bug that is a gut bug. It's a normal thing you have in your, in your gut. But he was in serious condition. And so it's 1:30 morning, I'm making random connections. I said, well, dog vomit fluoresces and maybe human vomit does too. Now why I knew that dog vomit fluoresces, I have no idea. So then we, so from my mobile phone, mobile hotspot, we ordered from Amazon five lights, and the nurses test the fluorescent lights with kids, and human vomit does not.

Heather Newman:  Okay, good to know.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah, I mean if you ever need it, but Scorpion, anything from a Scorpion including your urine does fluoresce as well. So there's your Trivial Pursuit fact for the day. And then I'm like, well, maybe we could feed them green fluorescent protein. So when they do vomit it will fluoresce and we decided that was probably not going to go over really well. But then we settled on, you know what? Any liquid is a problem. It just happens that someone vomiting on their dressing is super bad cause you get bugs already in it. But any liquid is bad. And so that's where we came up with, we'll just make a moisture indicating dressing. Yeah. So they're all, they're all some problem we bumped into and then we just go, well, what can we do to fix it?

Heather Newman:  Well, yeah, I mean there's so many people that talk about all kinds of ideas and things all the time, but then they never take action.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. Yeah. It's hard taking action. So we're working right now on, so if any of the listeners work at a hospital and know Environmental Services, they only clean half the stuff they're supposed to. And that's research, I'm not trying to pick on anybody. It's just research. We've got a way to improve their cleaning rate. And if I can get them from 50% to 75% of the objects that they're supposed to be cleaning. And notice my target is not 90 or 100, 75. I can reduce hospital associated infections by about, it's about, well, it's about 20%, which works out to be about one to two infections per employee per year.

Heather Newman:  Wow.

Robert Bogue:  So, we're super excited about the ability to work on that and to, that one actually brings a little bit more of my technology background into it, but it's how do we keep people from getting hurt and getting sick and dying?

Heather Newman:  Yeah, absolutely. Well, and isn't that kind of, you know, some of the most important things?

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. Well, so in that one, I'll tell you the story behind that one was Terri was in the hospital for something and she's fine now, but she's in the hospital and saw the Environmental Services cleaning and oh my gosh, I can't believe it. And I'm like, I can fix that. And she's like, you can't fix that. That's humans, you can't. I'm like, nope, I've got 20 years of training. I know how to fix that problem.

Heather Newman:  Is that coming soon.?Dot. Dot. Dot.

Robert Bogue:  I need, I

Heather Newman:  You're working on it.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah, I'm working on it. Really the problem is the savings, which is in infection control and the cost is all in environmental services and they're so far apart in the organization. So I'm going to try and find a company that, a healthcare organization that really gets it, as like not only do we want to save millions upon millions of dollars every year, but we also don't want people getting sick. And when I find that client, we'll roll through production and

Heather Newman:  Absolutely. Are you going to take the cards in places outside the US? Is that already being thought of?

Robert Bogue:  We haven't. The cards are a really interesting thing cause I carry them with me all the time and I give them to people randomly, which occasionally gets me some weird looks at airports and stuff. But mostly people are like, oh, thank you. Those are ones, they're philanthropy for us, right? We're trying to just get them in the market so that people don't accidentally hurt their kids. They just don't know. That's another case where we're actually waiting for the right partner to want to push this mission.

Heather Newman:  Right, right. So what does the optimal partner look like? Cause they might be listening.

Robert Bogue:  Honestly, it's reached to the effected market, which is people who don't have a lot of family around, so they're younger parents. The cards really talk through grade school, elementary school. And a lot of interactions, a lot of touch points with those sorts of folks. We really felt like there are lots of places where kids are at that it'd be super cool to have these, either as a giveaway or as a low cost item that they could purchase.

Heather Newman:  Give an example of like one of the cards, like something that it teaches.

Robert Bogue:  Oh, the simple stuff would be stuff like, don't let your kids play with the dog near food. Right? Like you're like, oh, well that makes sense. Dogs, food, they get protective, the kids will get hurt. There's things like, don't let your kids be outside while you're mowing. Kids take two weeks to adjust to heat. Babies respond to temperature changes quicker, so you have to be more careful with them than others. So it's, it's a variety of things. And really what we did is we took the CDC's vital statistics and they keep this and it's what people are getting injured by. And we sorted them and we took the top of the list and those made it into cards. And then the drawn art work is pretty cute because you get to see kind of what the kids thought.

Heather Newman:  Right. Right. That's so cool. I love that. So anyone listening food for thought on that one.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. Let us know. We really do want to get them out there.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. Going back to technology land, I mean, you've been in this business area for a really long time. What do you think is coming? You know, like, what's on the horizon, you know, or like the things that people say is it like AI and you know, and virtual reality.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. Okay. Alright, so let's do AI first. So, we're sitting at the AIIM Conference and now everybody is talking about robotic process automation. Um sorry, we've been doing this for a long time. We called it business process automation. Right? But we didn't have the AI component. And you're like, oh my gosh, we've got AI now. So what does AI? Well, AI is anything we haven't figured out how to do before. Right? It's really, people are like, oh AI, AI, AI. You know what, 20 years ago OCR was AI. 20 years ago optical character recognition was super amazing and it was impossible and it was wow. Right,? And now if you talk to somebody about AI, they won't put OCR in the list. Right? So Ai is just the stuff that we want you to want to long for, hope that you get. And it's good stuff and it's magical, and boy, I love mathematicians and statisticians who can make this stuff work. But for me it's all the same. It's all, it's all what we've been doing.

Heather Newman:  I love my data man. My little, do you remember what those were? So it was like a, it wasn't a calculator it was in the shape of a robot. It was literally called Data Man. And it taught me my multiplication tables.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. Like, like a little Alfie sort of thing?

Heather Newman:  Yes. It was a little dealio. And to me that was like the best thing I'd ever had.

Robert Bogue:  So, so future. Right? Like to answer your question. I think what I'm most excited about is that every iteration we learn a little bit more about how to make technology work for actual humans. And we're not getting it right yet. I don't want to say that we're getting it right. And the pendulum keeps swinging, right? Like so we have all this stuff on-prem and it's deployed and blah, blah, blah. And big corporations can't change it for 10 years. Right? And now we're on the other end of the spectrum where, you know, oops, I blinked and Office 365 changed and oh, I blinked again and man, now I've got Teams instead of Groups. I blink again and I, and I think we're too far on that end. But I like the idea that we're going to swing to the middle. And we're going to figure out how to help people be successful with all this technology that we keep dreaming up and implementing.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. Yeah. I think that's with anything in a way, you know, it's like the pendulum, like sometimes it swings so hard one way it gets stuck and we're, I mean, I think we're all wanting things to be just balanced a bit more, you know? I thought, since we are here at the AIIM Conference, it's always interesting to see where things are moving in particular with, you know, Paper. Somebody, oh, I was dealing with an insurance issue the other day and she was like, yeah, well you can fax it. And I was like, who has a fax machine? You have a fax machine?

Robert Bogue:  I do actually have a fax machine.

Heather Newman:  Why do you have a fax machine?

Robert Bogue:  Because I have a big multifunction copier in my office and it has fax built in.

Heather Newman:  Okay, fair enough.

Robert Bogue:  Right. But the 80s have called and they want it back.

Heather Newman:  I was like, you don't have a standalone fax machine though?

Robert Bogue:  No.

Heather Newman:  Okay. All right, let's be clear. But my point is, is that I think that because you work and do a lot of things in healthcare, like healthcare anything, financial services and utility and some of our sort of, I guess, the most sort of important industries are the ones that probably still have fax machines and so many paper records and all of that stuff. And I see it moving, but I don't see it moving as fast as it could. I wonder why. I mean, I have my opinions about why, but why do you think?

Robert Bogue:  You know, it takes just a ton of energy to manage all this churn. And absolutely should we maybe get rid of fax machines? Yeah. I would agree. We need to get rid of the fax machines, but to change a business process or rather to change all of the business processes. It takes a long time.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. And people don't like change. I mean, I don't care, you know, coming to any show, any of these technology shows and talking to people, walking up to a customer, you know, you may have the best thing they've ever seen and they love it and they're like, yeah, that's great. And they're like, I don't know. Do I have to move from here to there? To do it? And you're like, and sometimes it's free. You know what I mean? Like you can't even give it away to have somebody make a change. You know? And I know you talk a lot about like adoption, user adoption and all of that stuff. Has your spiel changed or is it the same?

Robert Bogue:  It's changed. It's more informed. I spend more time, what I realize is the people I am talking to have never been trained in organizational change management. They've never been trained in psychology or communications or engagement or, or, or. And so what I realize is I'm talking to somebody who drives a car about how to repair a car. And it doesn't work. Right? And so, basically I'm teaching auto mechanics. Or I'm saying, if you will let us, we will repair your car for you.

Heather Newman:  Or we can teach you to change the oil and do like five things on this checklist that you can do yourself.

Robert Bogue:  Right. I mean, learning to cook, if you think about learning to cook, you could become an expert chef. Or I can teach you a handful of things and I can give you a box of recipes and you know what? You're going to do okay. Right? I'm not even talking about like boxed dinners kind of. okay. I'm like, you know if you learn how to scramble an egg and bake a chicken breast and a handful of things. It's all you need.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. You're going to do all right. Yeah. So, you're writing, you've written a book that's going to come out that's about burnout. How do you, not to dig too personal, but like how do you avoid that? How have you avoided that? And does that come into the book? Are there stories like about your personal life? Is it like how does,

Robert Bogue:  Yeah, there's definitely stories. They're really, they tend to be more about the kids or our friends but they're definitely the stories. I think, I don't mean to oversimplify this, cause then people won't buy the book, but, but

Heather Newman:  I don't think it matters in a way because it's like you can tell people to do x, y, and z that's going to be good for them and they still don't do it.

Robert Bogue:  Right. So here's the, we have two models in the book. One is the bathtub model and it is your personal agency is a bathtub and when the bathtub is empty, you have burnt out. All right? And that's super simple. Now what fills the bathtub are your results, your support and your self-care. So, if you keep those things flowing, then everything keeps working. Now, by the way, the drain has a valve on it so that you can manage that and those are the demands that are placed on you. And so, at a basic level, if you feel like you have the capacity to get things done, you're unlikely to be in burnout. The second model in the book is a little harder to get. You have to kind of, there's more that's needed, but I'll give you the basic framework. The basic framework is you have to feel effective. And I said personal agency, the ability to get things done. Effective is actually a past tense. You're looking backwards and you're evaluating what should I have gotten done with what I perceive I did get done. When those two things get too far out of whack, when you feel like, oh my gosh, I should have gotten way more done. You expect more of yourself, you get and you have a lower view of what results you got, you'll be in burnout. And then so you trip those over to where you feel like, you know what? I'm doing a really darn good job. I'm not perfect but I'm getting stuff done and then it will be difficult for you to fall into the trap of burnout.

Heather Newman:  Right. I like that. I think cause sometimes with, with burnout in some of these issues there's like, I don’t know, in being on different panels, you and I speak a lot on different panels and talk about that stuff. And I feel like sometimes that it's like there's like somebody who'd be like, well you know, you just have to be positive or you have to be like vocal or you have to do blah, blah blah. And I feel like sometimes we don't use good examples. It's like that seems like the bathtub system. You know what I mean? And it's a visual. And you can see it and you can be like it's lower or higher, and you turn the drain on or off. But I feel like sometimes you read books or you like listen to people talk and it's like these big sort of, I will call it like an empty slogan. You know what I mean? And I think that that's exciting. So, there's a system and then there's also examples and stories of people that you know, your family and friends about how either they've gone into it or gotten out of it. That's awesome. I can't wait to read it. Say the name of it again.

Robert Bogue:  Extinguish Burnout: A Practical Guide to Prevention and Recovery.

Heather Newman:  How many books have you written?

Robert Bogue:  Uhh, that will be 27.

Heather Newman:  Holy cats! I think I knew that. I knew it was in the 20s but I didn't know it was 27. When did you write your first book?

Robert Bogue:  In 91' I wrote a chapter in a book.

Heather Newman:  Wow.

Robert Bogue:  And so, you get, by the way, I say 27 it doesn't mean I wrote everything in all the books. You write one chapter, I author credit. Author credit on 27 when this book is published will be 27.

Heather Newman:  What is the one that, is there one that has like, I don't know, is it something about like the first or is there something about maybe this one or is there something about one that you were like, this is the most awesome thing? Is there one?

Robert Bogue:  It's this one. It's Extinguish Burnout and part of it is I got to work with Terri on it. And we get to work on it together. She and I had worked on a chapter in an information overload book by the American Nursing Association. And that was fun. But this is different. And the other books that I did prior to that stuff, it's mostly technology books. And again, I love technology and I don't want to minimize it, but this, this for us is Extinguish Burnout is going to change people's lives. Like you don't get stuck anymore. You don't develop depression. You don't like, the correlation numbers if you look at some of the research, some of the researchers are trying to say that burnout and depression are not different. I don't agree with that, but there's some really high correlations. So if I can figure out how to keep you out of burnout. And it does, by the way, the flow of information is having burnout leads to depression, right? It's a fast follower. Follows within three months. But if I can keep people out of burnout, maybe I can keep them out of depression and depression is predicted to be the largest healthcare, not mental health, healthcare issue we will have on the planet by 2020.

Heather Newman:  Well, and stress and depression and all of that stuff leads to us getting, it's disease. It's cancer. All of those things are what that is. All the things that you're like, you turn around one day and you're like, really? You know? But it's like, yeah, remember all the times you've been stressed and bananas and couldn't get things done and felt terrible about yourself and like, right? So yeah, I completely believe that as well. Wow. This is so exciting. I can't wait to read it. You also have, talk about, did we talk about your organizational and communication videos at length at all?

Robert Bogue:  No.

Heather Newman:  So, let's talk about that, cause he's got all kinds of great stuff y'all. We're bouncing around, but like I keep remembering all the cool stuff you're doing.

Robert Bogue:  I can't sleep. So, one of the common problems about technology, so we started talking about what's new in technology and all that stuff. One of the common things in technology is getting the users to adopt it. And what I find is all the folks haven't been trained, psychology, comms, all that stuff. So what I started to do was put together pieces that people can use in their communications. So if I go back to a cooking metaphor, I pre make something and then you can season it and it's yours. You made it. But all the core of it's done. And so we've got two series that are releasing publicly with, they've got bumpers on them, but they're releasing publicly. One is engagement videos. And so that sort of Where's Waldo.

Heather Newman:  And that's not engagement like getting down on one knee.

Robert Bogue:  No, we're not talking about exchanging rings. We're talking about how do you get your users excited about your technology. So that started with Where's Waldo and just teaches people how to search on their intranet. It ends with wormhole physics, which is not yet posted. Which is about how you use Teams to connect people up, Microsoft Teams, you connect people across time, space and, and the spoiler alert is, so I'm the SharePoint Shepherd, my characters are, they're like Leading Lamb, Sam Sheep, Elaine Ewe, right? Like it's kind of in that. So I made a call to the field and so I called Lola Lamb while she was in the field. But, so you'll have to, you have to see that episode and that'll post at some point. And then, so that was how do you, how do you tease that into the middle of a communication about the rollout you're doing? Or how do you get people excited once you've rolled out? And I kept doing this and what I realized was the corporate communicators, most of the time they're the admin person for the department who's generating the story about whatever. Right. They've never been taught communications, right. They don't have journalism backgrounds. They don't know about inverted pyramids. When people talk about inverted pyramid they think about the Bangles, right? Like talk like no, that's walk like an Egyptian. Sorry. But they don't know, they don't know to write emotionally. They don't know how to write a story. Oh my gosh. If you've not been in drama or journalism or whatever, you don't know how to write a story. If I said Joseph Campbell, if you've been through story stuff and writing stuff you know Joseph Campbell. It's hero story and, and you know that stuff. But if you've never done that, and the teaser for the folks who are listening, if you don't know that, it's the framework that George Lucas used for Star Wars, right? Like it's the thing. And so we have a series of those, those are 600 words, four minute videos. And those are posting every other week. So the engagement is one week and then we do communications. Folks can use those directly; the videos are up on YouTube. If they want to subscribe to a series of them, so a they get them pushed. I give them to them off my video platform with shorter bumpers. Then if they say no, this was really good I really have to have this, they can buy a license that has really no bumpers and they can either deploy internally which they can use to watch their activity and know who's watching them. Or, they're also allowed to use them off of my video hosting platform but they have no bumpers and no ads and no, like it's just the video.

Heather Newman:  Got It. The content. That's super cool. I like that methodology on, you know, in our gig economy of like using the content, how you want to use it and license it and all that stuff. That's super cool.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. And we'll see. I mean, it's a new experiment for me. I like experiments. Most of them fail.

Heather Newman:  Oh, come on.

Robert Bogue:  Well No, they do! A friend of mine says,

Heather Newman:  No, no, I mean a thousand light bulbs or whatever.

Robert Bogue:  A friend of mine is like, Rob, I love that you never fail. And I looked at her and I'm like, what are you talking about?

Heather Newman:  Failure always leads to really good things usually. A lot of lemonade out of big lemons.

Robert Bogue:  Yeah. Yeah. I look at failure. Failure is not an option. It's the pathway.

Heather Newman:  Yes, exactly. Fail hard, fail quick, fail fast, fail a lot, move on, for sure. That's good.

Robert Bogue:  Keep failing. Just don't let it be fatal.

Heather Newman:  Yes. Well yeah, that's good. Yeah. No Darwin awards for anybody.

Robert Bogue:  Right. Hey y'all watch this!

Heather Newman:  So, we've got a new book coming out. We've got videos. Oh my goodness. You've got a patented bandage,

Robert Bogue:  IV dressing

Heather Newman:  IV dressing. I wanted to say that right. What else? Anything else?

Robert Bogue:  Gee, I hope not.

Heather Newman:  I know. Like, no burnout for you, Mister.

Robert Bogue:  Results versus expectations. My expectations are low and I'm cranking stuff out. It may not be very good, but I'm cranking it out.

Heather Newman:  Yeah, no, that's awesome. Where will we see you speaking next?

Robert Bogue:  I don't know. Well, so I don't know. See, so here's the thing, I know that I'm speaking at the SHRM conference nationally. I know I'm speaking at the Association for Professionals in Infection Control. I've got an HR conference I'm speaking at in Indianapolis. I know I've got more stuff, but the best way to see my speaking schedule is go to the website, go to Thor Projects dot com and on the lower right is the upcoming speaking schedule.

Heather Newman:  Yes, and his website is Thor, t h o r like Thor,

Robert Bogue:  The Viking God of war and thunder!

Heather Newman:  Thorprojects.com. So you can catch him there and we'll put more links up on show notes. What's your Twitter-atti handle? It's Robert Bogue, I believe.

Robert Bogue:  RobBogue, @robbogue.

Heather Newman:  Okay. And if, and if that's wrong, we'll fix it.

Robert Bogue:  Well I don't, I should know this stuff, but I don't use it actually.

Heather Newman:  I know, I tweet you all the time, but I'm like, I don't know either. But anyway, we'll put it in the show notes as well. So rob, man of many maven hats for sure. Um, and such a dear friend and thank you for catching up and being on here and telling everybody. You always have such cool things going on and I'm always just like, wow! You know, cause they're, you know, just from the heart, you know, and wanting to help.

Robert Bogue:  Look, you know, Jobs said, you know, figure out what kind of Ding you want to make in the universe. Yeah. And for Terri and I, I think I've figured it out. I think we're going to go ding this healthcare associated infections thing and I think we're going to grind it into the ground.

Heather Newman:  Yeah. Thank you.

Robert Bogue:  Thank you.

Heather Newman:  I mean, that's amazing, right? And, love to Terri and thank her too, but yeah. So, so good. So thank you, rob.

Robert Bogue:  Thank you Heather.

Heather Newman:  Absolutely. Well everyone

Robert Bogue:  Be fantastic.

Heather Newman:  Okay. I'm going to work on that every day, I think hopefully, yes. Folks, catch us on iTunes and Stitcher and Spotify and all the places where you listened to your wonderful podcasts and here's to you and another beautiful day on this big blue spinning sphere. Thanks.

Heather Newman

Heather Newman is an award-winning marketing maven, technology entrepreneur and an epic connector that brings many worlds together. She has extensive experience marketing products and services for Enterprise businesses, startups and emerging markets. Heather builds plans and processes that are nimble, human and different. She is an adept storyteller and is passionate about growth for both employees and the corporate bottom-line. Heather hails from the arts and the bulk of her career has been working with the largest technology companies in the world (Microsoft, Google, Amazon, NetApp, Hewlett Packard, and Dell). Her nineteen years of experience working at technology companies and building global high-tech marketing strategy has driven millions of dollars of revenue and multiple award-winning campaigns. She has led global marketing teams for many technology companies including AvePoint, IT Unity & KnowledgeLake. Heather was a part of the original Microsoft SharePoint Marketing team. During her tenure, she helped launch multiple versions of the product, build the SharePoint Partner Ecosystem and conceived of and produced the first three Microsoft SharePoint Conferences. Creative Maven has produced thousands of global marketing campaigns and events. Currently CM is focusing on go to market strategies for Microsoft and its partners as well as a new site sister site launching in 2015 called Marketingfixer.com. Heather also serves as Co-Founder and Chief Marketing Officer of Content Panda, an innovative technology startup looking to actively disrupt how content is delivered inside software.